Solomon, Hawaiian or????

Gavin Nugent · 15th September 2010, 11:25 PM

Whilst others are pondering, just diversing a little, what out there is known about the purpose behind faces on clubs, it does go back several hundred years, I imagine legend, stories and warding evil spirits and it is seen in so many Pacific cultures, actually everywhere in the world clubs are found I am sure these stories are abound.

Gav

Ron Anderson · 16th September 2010, 07:44 AM

I think in some cultures there is some significance in having faces on clubs. For instance, those whalebones clubs of the NW Pacific. There seems to be significance there, though I personally don't know what it is. It may just be identification of clan/tribe.

In other cultures, it seems pure ornamentation. I think of zulu knobkerries, for instance, were the head of the club has been made into a head/face with nails for eyes. I suspect this has no deeper signficance at all, other than a clever utilisation of the form to create added interest. Art for the sake of art.

In this particular club, my guess is that it is a symbol of aggression. But that's just a guess. I suppose based on the fact that it reminds me of Maori artefacts (and the haka, for that matter), with the tongue sticking out – some kind of war-like challenge among Polynesians perhaps.

fearn · 16th September 2010, 04:22 PM

Remember, for most weapons their primary purpose is to be seen, not used to hurt people. This is simple logic: societies where people go around swinging sharp things all day usually don't last, out of simple exhaustion.

That's why most weapons are ornamented. It's for that 80% (or 99%) of the time that they're not being used, and they need to just sit there looking scary, cool, or both.

Why not put a face on it?

Best,

F

Lew · 16th September 2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Remember, for most weapons their primary purpose is to be seen, not used to hurt people. This is simple logic: societies where people go around swinging sharp things all day usually don't last, out of simple exhaustion.

That's why most weapons are ornamented. It's for that 80% (or 99%) of the time that they're not being used, and they need to just sit there looking scary, cool, or both.

Why not put a face on it?

Best,

F

Fearn

Most weapons are made to kill and inflict injury. I understand that in some tribal cultures some weapons are oversized or carved with scarey faces to add a psychological effect when it is seen by the opposing warrior or the carvings could be a form of status symbol within the tribe but to say that there primary purpose is to be seen and not to be used just does not sound right to me unless these are ceremonial weapons?

Ron Anderson · 16th September 2010, 10:36 PM

Perhaps there is truth to the idea that weapons are created as much to deter conflict as to dealing with it when it occurs.

Or more correctly, weapons are created to enable you to win conflicts, and if they can do that without a blow being struck, all the better.

fearn · 16th September 2010, 10:40 PM

Lew,

You might want to revisit: the weirdest sword thread.

A lot of weapons are rarely or never used, and while we can talk about how deadly they are, their real function, measured day by day, is to sit around looking scary, or cool, or both.

As an example, the US has spent at least US $4 trillion into a nuclear weapons armory that does nothing but sit around looking scary, and everyone hopes the damned things never will get used, by any country.

This isn't a discussion about US foreign policy. Rather, it's an example. Weapons can be totally deadly, but that doesn't mean they get used at all. Why not decorate them?

Best,

F

Lew · 16th September 2010, 11:06 PM

Fearn

Some of those African pieces were used the ring knife was outlawed many years ago and my foot knife is the real deal these were self defense items carried every day in Africa. As far as the sock sword is concerned that was an experimental sword. The kora were used in Nepal for battle up until 1830-50. The African Ngala beheading swords were used back in the 1800s. All those nasty African daggers and swords were used and designed to kill at one time but evolved into status or ceremonial pieces later on in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Ron Anderson · 17th September 2010, 03:29 AM

Obviously, the primary use of most weapons is to kill or injure.

However, a secondary purpose of many weapons is to bestow status or some sort, which is why they are ornamented.

Sometimes this evolves into the main function of the weapon, and the killing function, as can be seen all over the modern Western world with parade and officers' swords, disappears. This can also be seen with maces and other forms that have evolved into strictly ceremonial pieces in all regions of the world. And this includes the very abundant keris, which this forum devotes an entire forum category to.

So the fact that weapons as we know them are often not created to fulfill the function of weapons, even though they could, is a no-brainer.

But a weapon can both be beautiful and deadly and many weapons did and still fall into that category. Others are created with the intent to just look good. Others are just plain nasty functional things designed to hack, impale or bludgeon.

However, if that was the only purpose weapons had, I for one probably wouldn't be interested in them. Killing other people is an uninspiring activity for the most part. (I don't speak from experience, of course).

15th September 2010, 11:25 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Pondering Whilst others are pondering, just diversing a little, what out there is known about the purpose behind faces on clubs, it does go back several hundred years, I imagine legend, stories and warding evil spirits and it is seen in so many Pacific cultures, actually everywhere in the world clubs are found I am sure these stories are abound. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 16th September 2010 at 02:26 AM.

16th September 2010, 07:44 AM	#2
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	I think in some cultures there is some significance in having faces on clubs. For instance, those whalebones clubs of the NW Pacific. There seems to be significance there, though I personally don't know what it is. It may just be identification of clan/tribe. In other cultures, it seems pure ornamentation. I think of zulu knobkerries, for instance, were the head of the club has been made into a head/face with nails for eyes. I suspect this has no deeper signficance at all, other than a clever utilisation of the form to create added interest. Art for the sake of art. In this particular club, my guess is that it is a symbol of aggression. But that's just a guess. I suppose based on the fact that it reminds me of Maori artefacts (and the haka, for that matter), with the tongue sticking out – some kind of war-like challenge among Polynesians perhaps.

16th September 2010, 04:22 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Remember, for most weapons their primary purpose is to be seen, not used to hurt people. This is simple logic: societies where people go around swinging sharp things all day usually don't last, out of simple exhaustion. That's why most weapons are ornamented. It's for that 80% (or 99%) of the time that they're not being used, and they need to just sit there looking scary, cool, or both. Why not put a face on it? Best, F

16th September 2010, 10:36 PM	#5
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Perhaps there is truth to the idea that weapons are created as much to deter conflict as to dealing with it when it occurs. Or more correctly, weapons are created to enable you to win conflicts, and if they can do that without a blow being struck, all the better.

16th September 2010, 10:40 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Lew, You might want to revisit: the weirdest sword thread. A lot of weapons are rarely or never used, and while we can talk about how deadly they are, their real function, measured day by day, is to sit around looking scary, or cool, or both. As an example, the US has spent at least US $4 trillion into a nuclear weapons armory that does nothing but sit around looking scary, and everyone hopes the damned things never will get used, by any country. This isn't a discussion about US foreign policy. Rather, it's an example. Weapons can be totally deadly, but that doesn't mean they get used at all. Why not decorate them? Best, F

16th September 2010, 11:06 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Fearn Some of those African pieces were used the ring knife was outlawed many years ago and my foot knife is the real deal these were self defense items carried every day in Africa. As far as the sock sword is concerned that was an experimental sword. The kora were used in Nepal for battle up until 1830-50. The African Ngala beheading swords were used back in the 1800s. All those nasty African daggers and swords were used and designed to kill at one time but evolved into status or ceremonial pieces later on in the late 19th and early 20th century.

17th September 2010, 03:29 AM	#8
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Obviously, the primary use of most weapons is to kill or injure. However, a secondary purpose of many weapons is to bestow status or some sort, which is why they are ornamented. Sometimes this evolves into the main function of the weapon, and the killing function, as can be seen all over the modern Western world with parade and officers' swords, disappears. This can also be seen with maces and other forms that have evolved into strictly ceremonial pieces in all regions of the world. And this includes the very abundant keris, which this forum devotes an entire forum category to. So the fact that weapons as we know them are often not created to fulfill the function of weapons, even though they could, is a no-brainer. But a weapon can both be beautiful and deadly and many weapons did and still fall into that category. Others are created with the intent to just look good. Others are just plain nasty functional things designed to hack, impale or bludgeon. However, if that was the only purpose weapons had, I for one probably wouldn't be interested in them. Killing other people is an uninspiring activity for the most part. (I don't speak from experience, of course).