Strange piece back, for coments

fernando · 7th September 2010, 04:55 PM

Outstanding Wayne!
... after over two years !
How could you remember this ?
An arit, no doubt; this time also the socket speaks for itself.
Thank you very much indeed

fearn · 7th September 2010, 05:36 PM

Neat blades!

Best,

F

(edited to remove duplicate comment)

kronckew · 7th September 2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Outstanding Wayne!
... after over two years !
How could you remember this ?
An arit, no doubt; this time also the socket speaks for itself.
Thank you very much indeed

serendipity

i just recently noticed your post in the trading post, which reminded me, and the owner of the one i posted today, posted the photo in another forum's 'show us your swords' thread this morning, so it was still fairly fresh in my mind

like most people , it's easier for me to remember the unusual items with unanswered questions...

Billman · 6th November 2010, 02:20 PM

There is much overlap between sickles (grass cutting) and billhooks (wood cutting) - in between there us a wide range of sickle shapes billhooks, e.g. the French faucillon or faucille à bois. The use of the same names for both weapons and tools further confuses the issue, e.g, bill or fauchard, as does the fact that weapons tend to have greater market value than tools.

In many societies the same blade probably served as tool and weapon, as in recent times in Rwanda, where the machete was the weapon of choice (used for genocide...).

Cutting tools may have long or short handles, fitted by a tang, a socket or rivetted scales - the blade may be convex, straight or concave - it may also be decorated, c.f. many tools from Austria, Hungary and the Alpine regions of German, France and Italy.... Handles may be made from wood, bone, leather, horn, antler or even exotic materials such as ivory, rhino horn or walrus tusk.

Even the presence of a hand guard does not indicate a weapon - they are found on Polish and Swiss billhooks, the American Woodsman's Pal (designed by a Swiss emigré) and sometimes the even as the extended guard of an Italian billhook.

A long handle and a hook on the back of the blade does not mean it is a weapon - hedging slashers from many countries have this feature, e.g. the French croissant and the Portugese foice...

Taking any tool/weapon away from its context make it difficult to be sure what its intended use was. Mis-use of a tool make it difficult for collectors of ethnograhic items... many of the tools in the Dutch Rijksmuseuem at Leiden are mis-named, presumably beacuse at the time of collection they were being used for an different purpose than they were made for, or maybe just ignorance or lack of local knowledge on the part of the collector....

If a tool is used as a weapon does that make it into a weapon, or does it remain a tool and vice versa??? (Somewhere I have an image of a German WWll bayonet turned into a sickle by an Italian blacksmith - a real case of turning spears into sickles (pruning hooks) ref Isaiah 2:4)

Billman · 7th November 2010, 10:59 AM

Sorry, wrong museum, should be the Volkenkunde at Leiden, not the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam - correct link is:

http://www.rmv.nl/collections/home.aspx

7th September 2010, 05:36 PM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat blades! Best, F (edited to remove duplicate comment) Last edited by fearn; 7th September 2010 at 08:50 PM.

6th November 2010, 02:20 PM	#4
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	sickle, billhook or other There is much overlap between sickles (grass cutting) and billhooks (wood cutting) - in between there us a wide range of sickle shapes billhooks, e.g. the French faucillon or faucille à bois. The use of the same names for both weapons and tools further confuses the issue, e.g, bill or fauchard, as does the fact that weapons tend to have greater market value than tools. In many societies the same blade probably served as tool and weapon, as in recent times in Rwanda, where the machete was the weapon of choice (used for genocide...). Cutting tools may have long or short handles, fitted by a tang, a socket or rivetted scales - the blade may be convex, straight or concave - it may also be decorated, c.f. many tools from Austria, Hungary and the Alpine regions of German, France and Italy.... Handles may be made from wood, bone, leather, horn, antler or even exotic materials such as ivory, rhino horn or walrus tusk. Even the presence of a hand guard does not indicate a weapon - they are found on Polish and Swiss billhooks, the American Woodsman's Pal (designed by a Swiss emigré) and sometimes the even as the extended guard of an Italian billhook. A long handle and a hook on the back of the blade does not mean it is a weapon - hedging slashers from many countries have this feature, e.g. the French croissant and the Portugese foice... Taking any tool/weapon away from its context make it difficult to be sure what its intended use was. Mis-use of a tool make it difficult for collectors of ethnograhic items... many of the tools in the Dutch Rijksmuseuem at Leiden are mis-named, presumably beacuse at the time of collection they were being used for an different purpose than they were made for, or maybe just ignorance or lack of local knowledge on the part of the collector.... If a tool is used as a weapon does that make it into a weapon, or does it remain a tool and vice versa??? (Somewhere I have an image of a German WWll bayonet turned into a sickle by an Italian blacksmith - a real case of turning spears into sickles (pruning hooks) ref Isaiah 2:4)

7th September 2010, 04:55 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Outstanding Wayne! ... after over two years ! How could you remember this ? An arit, no doubt; this time also the socket speaks for itself. Thank you very much indeed

7th November 2010, 10:59 AM	#5
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Sorry, wrong museum, should be the Volkenkunde at Leiden, not the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam - correct link is: http://www.rmv.nl/collections/home.aspx