Smallswords, why the terms pillow and mourning swords?

Hotspur · 17th August 2010, 02:28 AM

The Manuscripts of Lincoln, Bury St. Edmunds etc.: Fourteenth report, Appendix; part VIII

III.—CHAMBERLAINS' ROLLS.

The Chamberlains' parchment Rolls of Account unfortunately only commence at the year 1685–6, (fn. 1) but from that date, with the exception of the two years next following, they are nearly complete up to the time of the Municipal Reform Act.

1685–6.—For the cover of the new velvet hat, 5s.

For new velvet for a new scabbard for the mourning sword, and for gilding the handle of the said sword, embroidering the scabbard, and carriage down, 50s. 6d.

For the making of a new ducking stool, 55s. 8d.

For a new chair for the ducking stool, 4s.

A ducking stool and chair more expensive than the sword refurb

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=726

Cheers

GC

Hotspur · 17th August 2010, 02:36 AM

Old and New London: Volume 1

There are four swords belonging to the City of London. The "Pearl" sword, presented by Queen Elizabeth when she opened the first Royal Exchange, in 1571, and so named from its being richly set with pearls. This sword is carried before the Lord Mayor on all occasions of rejoicing and festivity. The "Sword of State," borne before the Lord Mayor as an emblem of his authority. The "Black" sword, used on fast days, in Lent, and at the death of any of the royal family. And the fourth is that placed before the Lord Mayor's chair at the Central Criminal Court.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=339

and on There was a reference as early as the 14th century in one source or another. The memento mori trends of objects and other references certainly way old too.

Cheers

GC

Hotspur · 17th August 2010, 02:38 AM

Dictionary of Traded Goods and Commodities, 1550-1820

!n 1751 Aris's Birmingham Gazette, and no doubt other provincial papers too, published Orders from the Lord Chamberlains office concerning mourning for the Prince of Wales. Ladies were to wear black BOMBAZINE with HOODs made of CRAPE and crape FANs, while a gentleman's wear was to be made of black cloth with a crape HATBAND and black SWORD and BUCKLEs. Such announcements of royal deaths, particularly if unexpected, could spell both peril and profit for retailers. Disaster might befall those unfortunates who had just filled their shops with the new season's fashionable textiles that might well be out of date before the period of mourning was over. Conversely, some retailers made a steady profit on stocking black goods to supply the needs of their customers when death struck near home [Diaries (Turner)]; [Newspapers (1760)].

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=739

And so on

Cheers

GC

Jim McDougall · 19th August 2010, 10:29 PM

Absolutely masterful research and detail on these terms Glen!!! Thank you for taking the time to add all this and cite references and details. Its great to see a compendium of material on these terms for those who get as curious as I do about them.

Thank you very much,
All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 20th August 2010, 09:16 AM

Sorry I forgot to comment back on this thread. Thank you, Glen for the added information. I'm going to try and post a pic of my plain black-hilted smallsword when I can find the time, for the sake of argument...

kronckew · 8th October 2017, 12:09 AM

stumbled on this thread while researching. thought i'd post a photo or two of my cut steel grip mourning sword. it was listed as 19c when i got it, but it appears from the above discusiion it may be earlier. 95cm blade, appears to once have had a chain from the guard to the pommel in lieu of a knuckle bow. sadly no scabbard. i gather the black finish was rather polished to reflect from the steel bobbles jewel-like rather than a dull matte finish.

corrado26 · 8th October 2017, 07:49 AM

I red these posts with great attention because I have in my collection a small sword totally blackened and I didn't know what could have been the reason for this surface treating. On the blade there is a portrait or perhaps a caricature of a person whose meaning is also unknown to me. The sword has a length of 880mm and a total weight of 295g what is very light.
It could be French as well as English.
Thanks for comments
corrado26

8th October 2017, 12:09 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	stumbled on this thread while researching. thought i'd post a photo or two of my cut steel grip mourning sword. it was listed as 19c when i got it, but it appears from the above discusiion it may be earlier. 95cm blade, appears to once have had a chain from the guard to the pommel in lieu of a knuckle bow. sadly no scabbard. i gather the black finish was rather polished to reflect from the steel bobbles jewel-like rather than a dull matte finish. Attached Images

8th October 2017, 07:49 AM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	I red these posts with great attention because I have in my collection a small sword totally blackened and I didn't know what could have been the reason for this surface treating. On the blade there is a portrait or perhaps a caricature of a person whose meaning is also unknown to me. The sword has a length of 880mm and a total weight of 295g what is very light. It could be French as well as English. Thanks for comments corrado26 Attached Images

17th August 2010, 02:28 AM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	The Manuscripts of Lincoln, Bury St. Edmunds etc.: Fourteenth report, Appendix; part VIII III.—CHAMBERLAINS' ROLLS. The Chamberlains' parchment Rolls of Account unfortunately only commence at the year 1685–6, (fn. 1) but from that date, with the exception of the two years next following, they are nearly complete up to the time of the Municipal Reform Act. 1685–6.—For the cover of the new velvet hat, 5s. For new velvet for a new scabbard for the mourning sword, and for gilding the handle of the said sword, embroidering the scabbard, and carriage down, 50s. 6d. For the making of a new ducking stool, 55s. 8d. For a new chair for the ducking stool, 4s. A ducking stool and chair more expensive than the sword refurb http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=726 Cheers GC

17th August 2010, 02:36 AM	#2
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	Old and New London: Volume 1 There are four swords belonging to the City of London. The "Pearl" sword, presented by Queen Elizabeth when she opened the first Royal Exchange, in 1571, and so named from its being richly set with pearls. This sword is carried before the Lord Mayor on all occasions of rejoicing and festivity. The "Sword of State," borne before the Lord Mayor as an emblem of his authority. The "Black" sword, used on fast days, in Lent, and at the death of any of the royal family. And the fourth is that placed before the Lord Mayor's chair at the Central Criminal Court. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=339 and on There was a reference as early as the 14th century in one source or another. The memento mori trends of objects and other references certainly way old too. Cheers GC

17th August 2010, 02:38 AM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	Dictionary of Traded Goods and Commodities, 1550-1820 !n 1751 Aris's Birmingham Gazette, and no doubt other provincial papers too, published Orders from the Lord Chamberlains office concerning mourning for the Prince of Wales. Ladies were to wear black BOMBAZINE with HOODs made of CRAPE and crape FANs, while a gentleman's wear was to be made of black cloth with a crape HATBAND and black SWORD and BUCKLEs. Such announcements of royal deaths, particularly if unexpected, could spell both peril and profit for retailers. Disaster might befall those unfortunates who had just filled their shops with the new season's fashionable textiles that might well be out of date before the period of mourning was over. Conversely, some retailers made a steady profit on stocking black goods to supply the needs of their customers when death struck near home [Diaries (Turner)]; [Newspapers (1760)]. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.aspx?pubid=739 And so on Cheers GC

19th August 2010, 10:29 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,298	Absolutely masterful research and detail on these terms Glen!!! Thank you for taking the time to add all this and cite references and details. Its great to see a compendium of material on these terms for those who get as curious as I do about them. Thank you very much, All the best, Jim

20th August 2010, 09:16 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,167	Sorry I forgot to comment back on this thread. Thank you, Glen for the added information. I'm going to try and post a pic of my plain black-hilted smallsword when I can find the time, for the sake of argument...