A blade for coments; old, early, or very early

Bryan.H · 7th August 2010, 01:51 PM

This blade still intrigues me, and I'd love to know it's precise archaeological context. Stratigraphy is crucial to dating this piece I think, as the land has more than likely been subject to human habitation and invasions and armed conflict from Romans to the armies of Wellington and Napoleon.

I found a reference to 4th Century roman knives, that are smaller than your example Fernando, however the tang and pommel/ tang button appear similar.

http://www.comitatus.net/Documents/R...Atkinson-2.pdf

These are from the Romano-british Lankhills cemetery.

For what it's worth, I struggle to see how the blade profile could eventuate from the grinding down or sharpening of a blade over a long period of time. It could well be a butchers knife of some antiquity, as even today, the length is comparable, the blade shape not so different (wider at the tip and broad), and the hand actions involved in butchering have not changed greatly over time..

fernando · 7th August 2010, 03:41 PM

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the link.
Still the examples shown in the article, besides smaller in dimensions, do not coincide much with the shape of this thread's example.
As for stratigraphy, i wouldn't think it would play a role here.This item was in possession of a local peasant; therefore much more probably an open air finding than a digging. You are right in that the place has seen the presence of several human stock; more likely inhabited by the first ones and only serving as a route by the late.
Certainly Galicians, dominated by Romans, succeeded by Suevos, removed by Visigods, you name them.
There is a well preserved Sauna bath complex in the area, showing Roman evidence.
Wellington and Napolean (Soult) troops might also have been around, but probably using the area as a passage, less possibly using it as a battle field, much less as a residence.
Considering this blade continued sharpening, i understand such action would consume the blade in a more extensive area towards the front, thus not leaving such a pronounced belly near the tip, as also it would remain wider in the back end, therefore with a rather different configuration; this assuming, as you say, that sharpening techniques didn't change over time.
... Unless its cutting utility was not practiced by a conventional butcher ... as much early in time as butchers existed.
Mind you, i am not, by any means, qualified in metalurgy or any sort of scholarship close to this problematic, to reject your suggestion all the way.
We are just brainstorming here

.
Until a similar item shows up or/and a categoric ID is attributed, anything is possible

.
Fernando

7th August 2010, 01:51 PM	#1
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	Possible Gallo-Roman reference? This blade still intrigues me, and I'd love to know it's precise archaeological context. Stratigraphy is crucial to dating this piece I think, as the land has more than likely been subject to human habitation and invasions and armed conflict from Romans to the armies of Wellington and Napoleon. I found a reference to 4th Century roman knives, that are smaller than your example Fernando, however the tang and pommel/ tang button appear similar. http://www.comitatus.net/Documents/R...Atkinson-2.pdf These are from the Romano-british Lankhills cemetery. For what it's worth, I struggle to see how the blade profile could eventuate from the grinding down or sharpening of a blade over a long period of time. It could well be a butchers knife of some antiquity, as even today, the length is comparable, the blade shape not so different (wider at the tip and broad), and the hand actions involved in butchering have not changed greatly over time..

7th August 2010, 03:41 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Brian, Thanks for the link. Still the examples shown in the article, besides smaller in dimensions, do not coincide much with the shape of this thread's example. As for stratigraphy, i wouldn't think it would play a role here.This item was in possession of a local peasant; therefore much more probably an open air finding than a digging. You are right in that the place has seen the presence of several human stock; more likely inhabited by the first ones and only serving as a route by the late. Certainly Galicians, dominated by Romans, succeeded by Suevos, removed by Visigods, you name them. There is a well preserved Sauna bath complex in the area, showing Roman evidence. Wellington and Napolean (Soult) troops might also have been around, but probably using the area as a passage, less possibly using it as a battle field, much less as a residence. Considering this blade continued sharpening, i understand such action would consume the blade in a more extensive area towards the front, thus not leaving such a pronounced belly near the tip, as also it would remain wider in the back end, therefore with a rather different configuration; this assuming, as you say, that sharpening techniques didn't change over time. ... Unless its cutting utility was not practiced by a conventional butcher ... as much early in time as butchers existed. Mind you, i am not, by any means, qualified in metalurgy or any sort of scholarship close to this problematic, to reject your suggestion all the way. We are just brainstorming here . Until a similar item shows up or/and a categoric ID is attributed, anything is possible . Fernando