![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]()
Just a few days ago I received this old kris.
The scabbard consists of two pieces of wood. The lower part and the crosspiece. The crosspiece is made of banati wood (also the pommel). The bottom part of the scabbard is different wood (probably to lower the costs at that time). Did you ever see a kind of such crosspiece's restoration? There are two "old" holes in the crosspiece, and the crosspiece is attached with some kind of rope (maybe latter?) to the bottom part of the scabbard, wounded with ratan. There is some tolerance between the two connected parts, but the blade still fits perfectly! The break off is old, cause there is the same dark patina as the rest of the banati crosspiece. By the way, I made the images just as it came. I try to clean and etch the blade in short time if I find a little time, and than I will post additional images here after cleaning. Also the wood still needs a treatment with antique wax. Kind Regards, Maurice |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 238
|
![]()
Hello, congrats for your new find!
I think I've seen similar crosspiece restoration the other day on one of internet auction site but the rattan wrap is horizontal-to keep both halves of the crosspiece together. I think I see two smaller holes on the first, second and last picture, that ones on the meeting point of the cross piece and the bottom of the taguban. If that is right, it might be similar way with the technique found in older Javanese scabbard/I also found it once on Bugis sheath. They inserted two wooden pin each sides to join the crosspiece with the vertical part. This way it is very pronounce to movement along with wear/time and no wonder it cracked (mostly I've seen using this technique are already movable, crack or broken) In case you decided to change the crosspiece, I think the (good quality) material is still obtainable in Malaysia ask for kayu kemuning (orange jasmine?) as the local name. Or maybe replacing (patching) the missing piece is another option. On the first choice, you can always keep the original crosspiece. But keeping it as it is now would be as good. Last edited by tunggulametung; 16th July 2010 at 04:28 PM. Reason: attachment added |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
![]() Quote:
![]() Kind Regards, Maurice |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
|
![]()
Could we please see the blade, Maurice ?
I also have a Jawa wrongko, old; that is attached to the gandar with wood pins . If the two strings were made taut, then wrapped tightly with rattan right over the joint and up onto the crosspiece; the pressure would draw the two pieces firmly together; IMO . Almost like Baca baca . ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Congrats, neat find! Looks like a southern Sulu piece to me - interesting chubby blade with really nice scabbard. Quote:
Quote:
I'd posit that the scabbard once had silver bands at the junction as well as the foot which got removed/salvaged after the break. I'd also guess that there once was a silver ferrule at the base of the hilt... Quote:
Regards, Kai |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Regards, Kai |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Kai is on target - good responses.
I agree that it is Sulu, etc. I do think the rope etc is later. The silver band at the end - maybe, maybe not, though it is harder for me to see the patina well enough to tell for sure. These scabbards sometimes did and did not have silver band(s) at the bottom. If it did, it would also most likely have one under the crosspiece as well. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
It is probably done latter, a long time after the actual crosspiece broke off considering the patina (it might be restored like it was the first time?) If the restoration is moro or not, I have no idea.. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
I think this one is a good match to my captain Chimmo budiak! ![]() Quote:
The different patination is easy to explain. It is very different material which is not easily seen on the images I guess. It is a kind of very thin fiber threads, all put together and plaided to achieve one bigger fiber cord. There is no clearly visibale wear which suggests the use after the restoration...So i guess it indeed might be latter. However the two holes in the crosspiece are much older, considering the patination and dirt which is in it... Quote:
However I guess it would be to heavy/large for a boy's ceremonial kris? IMO this was not used as ceremonial kris, concerning the patina, wear and damages all over the piece... The kris is almost 65 cm long. The blade only is 47 cm long. Ofcourse after cleaning and etching, I will post some images of the whole blade. Kind Regards, Maurice |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
Therefore my post, I try to figure out if this could be moro or the work of some kind of hobbyist.. ![]() After discussing this here with you guys, it would probably be an easier decission for me to make! About the silverwork....Just below the cacatua pommel there is a "copper" plate as decoration, which has old patina. I guess this material could be used as ferrule instead of silver?? Kind Regards, Maurice |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
![]() Last edited by Maurice; 17th July 2010 at 01:44 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
Could also be copper or brass bands - need to check a little spot on the band to see if copper or brass - patinas would look the same (copper content on both).
Would have to see close ups of the scabbard to see if the patina matches woven rattan. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Here images of the tip of the scabbard where once a band had been. It is approximately 3 cm wide. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
Same-o with the iron nails. Regards, Kai |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
Quote:
A ceremonial usage like exhibiting the status of a datu's son during formal events wouldn't preclude training and everyday carry, too. However, the copper band on the hilt doesn't support my assumption that this is clearly a datu-level piece; considering the wood quality, this must have been a fairly wealthy family though... Regards, Kai |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Attaching pics of the blade...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
Yes, I agree that the scabbard likely had also bands of copper. Regards, Kai |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
May not be conclusive but I'd tend towards 2 metal rather than rattan bands for this scabbard. Regards, Kai |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
I'm with Kai on this. The patina does not have the the line or woven indentation that comes with tightly wrapped or woven rattan (if I judge the pictures right). It probably had a plain copper top and plain bottom band.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Thank you, I think you are right about that, so now we cleared that up it is easy to repair the crosspiece to the lower scabbardpiece. With 2 copper/brass bands, 3 cm wide... ![]() Kind Regards, Maurice |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But I can't see why it should be for a boy because of the chubby blade. But you have seen a lot more pieces as I have of these, so I will surely take it in my consideration. ![]() Regards, Kai |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
A friend of mine offered me to make me the copper bands. ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]()
Any thoughts about the devious looking crest?
![]() I think it is not a normal form, and probably something is broken, or a chip of wood is off, but according the patina a long, long time ago. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | ||
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
However, is there really any wear (thread used for binding actually cutting into the originally drilled/carved wood)? (As in the penai you had.) Quote:
Regards, Kai |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
|
![]()
Hello Maurice,
Quote:
Regards, Kai |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,189
|
![]()
I would leave the crest as is this time. It is basically complete, though as Kai says, a little carved long ago.....
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,324
|
![]()
gangja section:
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|