Proposed Changes in Swap Forum Rules

[Lew]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Lew and all,




So we've got a couple of conflicting desires at play here, it seems.
--the moderators want less work, and this seems to be primarily the work of chasing down questionable dealers.
--the senior members want to trade with each other, potentially to the exclusion of newbies. A newbie can see what's being traded, but unless they have something of equal value, they can't obtain it. The long term problem with this approach is that the group needs to continually recruit new members in order to survive.
--Other people want to sell their pieces, either by posting them directly or by linking to their own sites.
--Rules such as in the keris forum kill the trade. Nice for moderators (less work), but not terribly useful for anyone else.

Obviously, the forum can't have all three characteristics.

I'd suggest two things:
1. Split off a swap forum. Create a place where money does not change hands and commercial activity is not tolerated. This will preserve the exchange that some members value, and the rules would be clear. Posts not following them would either be moved or deleted.
2. Have a buy/sell/trade forum for commerce. Caveat emptor should be the rule here, but potential purchasers should be free to comment (as a method of quality control). Actively malicious material should be removed, but otherwise, it would be more equivalent to the swap board of last year.

Sorry Fearn it is not a question of more work and this is a nonprofit forum none of the moderators are paid it is solely done on a volunteer basis and we do not sell space for advertising. So your point on needing new members to survive makes no sense. As far as newbies not being able to trade because they have small or no collections to offer for trade well that is one of the hurdles one must face when starting a hobby. How do you think we all started here? My dad did not leave me a collection I started with a kris and a barong and built up from there. Btw only about 1-5 percent of my collection was obtained through the swap on this forum all my other stuff was purchased via ebay,shows or through dealers websites.

[David]

Originally Posted by Lew

Sorry Fearn it is not a question of more work and this is a nonprofit forum none of the moderators are paid it is solely done on a volunteer basis and we do not sell space for advertising. So your point on needing new members to survive makes no sense.

Yeah, that comment baffled me as well. Maybe the Swap Forums need newbie collectors to survive, but the forums would remain strong places of discussion regardless of new membership. Not that new members are being discouraged. Fresh blood always has something new to offer. But long time members who like to trade with other members will always be able to do so and their collections will be constantly be growing from a myriad of other sources so there will always be new items to swap. No need to do any active recruiting. I don't think any of these "Senior Collectors" have built the bulk of their collection through our little swap forum. I have never bought or swapped a single thing in the Swap Forum, yet my collection keeps growing.
BTW, changes in the Swap are not being considered in order to drive the combination collector/dealer off the site. We have many collector/dealers here who are highly valuable, respected and active members.

[kahnjar1]

I see that there have now been many replies to this thread, which is encouraging.....BUT.....THERE IS STILL NO REPLY FROM ANY OF THE MODERATORS STATING WHY THEY ARE CONSIDERING THESE CHANGES. Is this change for change sake?..... or is there a REAL reason for the considerations?
If a subject like this is to be PROPERLY debated, then surely the reasons behind the issue need to be made public.
Stuart

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I see that there have now been many replies to this thread, which is encouraging.....BUT.....THERE IS STILL NO REPLY FROM ANY OF THE MODERATORS STATING WHY THEY ARE CONSIDERING THESE CHANGES. Is this change for change sake?..... or is there a REAL reason for the considerations?
If a subject like this is to be PROPERLY debated, then surely the reasons behind the issue need to be made public.
Stuart

And you will get no such response. The purpose of this thread was not to encourage a debate (proper or otherwise), but as a courtesy to the membership, and to solicit constructive feedback.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we could simply have changed the rules with no notice whatsoever. And, yes, making life easier for our Staff is a significant concern. We're entitled to it.

Let's get back to the "constructive feedback", or I will simply close this thread.

Andrew

[fearn]

Originally Posted by David

Yeah, that comment baffled me as well. Maybe the Swap Forums need newbie collectors to survive, but the forums would remain strong places of discussion regardless of new membership. Not that new members are being discouraged. Fresh blood always has something new to offer. But long time members who like to trade with other members will always be able to do so and their collections will be constantly be growing from a myriad of other sources so there will always be new items to swap. No need to do any active recruiting. I don't think any of these "Senior Collectors" have built the bulk of their collection through our little swap forum. I have never bought or swapped a single thing in the Swap Forum, yet my collection keeps growing.
BTW, changes in the Swap are not being considered in order to drive the combination collector/dealer off the site. We have many collector/dealers here who are highly valuable, respected and active members.

Explanation: If newbies feel like there's an inner circle they can't crack, then most of them don't stick around. I spend a lot of time with other interest groups, and it's a huge problem.

The non-profit group I'm most active with is currently struggling with a declining membership and an average member age that's increasing. One of the chief complaints of the faction that's trying to open up the membership is the perception by newbies that there's an old, established, in-group who aren't much interested in them. Most of that in-group protest that nothing could be further from the truth, yet we don't get many truly new members to stay around and become old members. I'm an old member, but I think there's a lot of truth in the newbies' complaint.

Similarly, some (not all) of the moderators seem to want things to go back to "the way things used to be." Given my experience, this is a danger signal, in that it suggests formation of a small, old guard that effectively repels newbies, even though it attempts to be open.

This is not meant as a criticism of the policies of this board, nor its moderators or members. I like this site, even though I contribute very little. What I am pointing out is that people of good will, for the best of intentions, can harm a group through actions designed to help it. I'm dealing with one of those situations right now, and I'm hoping that it doesn't happen here as well.

Best,

F

[Andrew]

Not at all what's going on here, Fearn. Quite the contrary, actually.

Thanks to everyone for the constructive input.

Best,
Andrew