Proposed Changes in Swap Forum Rules

Gavin Nugent · 8th July 2010, 01:15 PM

Thanks for the heads up Lee, you have mail and you are most welcome to use points within for further discussions with the team.

Thanks

Gav

kahnjar1 · 8th July 2010, 07:07 PM

Hi Lee,
I am assuming the "1" would include books related to antique/ethnographic weapons of all sorts?
Regarding "3"...............often a seller is prepared to accept "reasonable offers" on an item or may not have a clue as to an items worth, OR may have several items for sale and would prefer to deal with GENUINE buyers rather than "tire kickers". I agree with all other proposed requirements of this rule but would personally prefer to see the need to state a price removed.
Also don't forget that this Forum covers "wanted" ads which it would impossible to put a price on.
While I accept the need for rules, I would not like to see things get too cumbersome or restrictive. Status quo seems to be working OK?????????

Regards Stuart

Maurice · 8th July 2010, 07:29 PM

Hi Lee,

Why changing the rules as it is working as it is now?

Here my opinion:
About 1, 2 and 5 agreed.

About 3: I don't agree, because sometimes you can come to a price, swap, after letting people on the forum know that you are considering letting a piece go....Maybe somebody wants it badly enough to offer a price that the owner will pulled over the line to let it go for. Than 2 collectors are happy. The one who sold/swapped it, and the one who needed this piece to complete his collection....

About 4: don't agree. What is the problem of letting collectors know that there is something on auction or for sale on a personal website or ebay?
What's wrong of showing people were to find stuff they collect?
Nobody is forced to visit the website or ebay link and also nobody is forced to buy an item...

Just my opinion!
Rg,
Maurice

asomotif · 8th July 2010, 10:52 PM

Hello Lee,

I feel that too much rules might slowly suficate this forum.
Look at the keris swap forum...
We extensivley discussed the rules and I am happy that we banned "profesional" traders on that part (as they where often selling newly made and/or pimped up crap á blingbling

).

But on the entno swap I don't see much crappy stuff being offered.
I am happy with the updates that certain traders post there. (although if needed I can ofcourse sign up to there newsletters.)
But, if I sign up to their newsletters I have one reason less to visit the swap, so one reason less to visit the forum

So my opinion on nr. 4 : don't agree

As for point 3.

An asking price would be appreciated, but is not absolutely necesarry for me.
mentioning an e-mail address. No, rather not.
I don't mind being contacted by forum members, but putting my e-mail address out open will mean that everybody can contact me, and above that add me to spam or mailings.
Fyi, I have no spam filter and I receive "zero" spam by e-mail because I am rather choosy of where I leavy my address.

So as for Nr. 3 don't agree.

The other points are fine with me.

Best regards,
Willem

kahnjar1 · 9th July 2010, 08:54 PM

I sincerely hope that there has been more interest in this subject than the replies here suggest!!

As it is too late to edit my original post, I just want to add that, in further relation to Proposal 3, that as this Forum is PRIMARILY for MEMBERS, the reply "system" of Private Messages already exists by way of the Member List, and it should be the MEMBERS CHOICE as to whether he chooses to devulge his email address.

Also I wish to reitterate as other replies here have indicated, that the present situation appears to be working well, and why change something which is NOT BROKEN !!

PERHAPS SOME OF THE MODERATORS WOULD CARE TO COMMENT HERE ON WHY THEY SEE THE NEED TO CHANGE THINGS??

ALSO, SINCE THIS POTENTIALLY WILL AFFECT THAT SECTION, I BELIEVE THAT THIS DISCUSSION SHOULD ALSO APPEAR AS A STICKY ON THE SWAP FORUM.

Regards, Stuart

Clubs & Arrows · 10th July 2010, 01:39 AM

Hello.
I don't post too often, but I have used the Swap Forum to trade pieces with other collectors/dealers in the past. I haven't posted anything in the past with prices, because when I trade, prices aren't discussed, due to the fact that everyone usually has an idea of what they want, or what they think your piece/pieces are worth. As far as taking away the ability to advertise personal websites....I have one, and although it is ethnographic, I haven't advertised it here because it isn't weapons based. The sites that are advertised in the swap forum are weapons based, and from time to time the site owners will remind us that they are still updating the sites, or having sales, etc. If you block them from advertising, will people discussing particular items from so and so's website (past or present) be a problem? What about people using captured images of pieces from other individual's sites?
As for ebay, I have both sold and bought there, and don't really see a problem with linking ads to it. I've seen people post on the swap forum first, and after a while post that they have moved the item to ebay, because of lack of interest. My thought is just to keep things as they are.

Thanks,
Joe

fearn · 10th July 2010, 02:07 AM

I'm not an active user of the swap forum, but I'm not happy with some of these rules:

1. General: Vikingsword is *easy* to get to on Google and is also cited as a reputable source on Wikipedia. In other words, anything posted here is readily findable. How much information did you want to post about ourselves and our collections on this extremely public site? If I was running a scam, this would be among the first places I would look for plausible information.
2. We don't give appraisals, but you want us to post asking prices? These policies seem to be contradictory.
3. The biggest question: what will it improve?
--Will it stop scams? Absolutely not.
--Will it make us and our collections less secure? A bit. We would have to link an object with a price, an online name, and an email. It's the risk we take selling stuff online, but since it won't stop scams, I'm not sure what it will do.
4. Links to commercial sites: I'm absolutely unclear about why this is warranted. Here's an example: I'm working on getting a manuscript published, and I know that it might be of interest to people here. When it gets published, I was planning on posting a link to amazon so that people could buy it if interested. That's obviously a no go under these rules. But it would be okay if I posted that information in the main discussion forum? How about if I posted a link to a museum gift store as opposed to Amazon?

Right now, I'm on the list of people who don't understand what problems these rules are intended to fix.

Best,

F

David · 10th July 2010, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

But, if I sign up to their newsletters I have one reason less to visit the swap, so one reason less to visit the forum

Is the swap forum really a major reason for anyone to visit these forums? Isn't it the intensive and well-informed discussion of ethnographic weapons which, AFAIK can't be found at this level anywhere else on the Internet? The swap forum was originally begun to allow our collecting members a way to dispose of items they no longer wanted and offer them to other collecting members who might have a place in their collections for such an item. It was never intended to be a clearing house for dealers or a place for competitive auctions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

About 3: I don't agree, because sometimes you can come to a price, swap, after letting people on the forum know that you are considering letting a piece go....Maybe somebody wants it badly enough to offer a price that the owner will pulled over the line to let it go for. Than 2 collectors are happy. The one who sold/swapped it, and the one who needed this piece to complete his collection....

I am confused about this reasoning. Naming a price in no way means that the seller cannot settle for a lower price in negotiation with a buyer or decide to trade with a potential buyer if the buyer offers a piece that interests the seller. It does set the price that the seller expects and keeps the swap from becoming an auction house with competing bidding. It also give a potential swapper an idea of the value of the piece in the seller's eyes and some idea of what might be an acceptable item to offer in swap to the seller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clubs & Arrows

The sites that are advertised in the swap forum are weapons based, and from time to time the site owners will remind us that they are still updating the sites, or having sales, etc. If you block them from advertising, will people discussing particular items from so and so's website (past or present) be a problem? What about people using captured images of pieces from other individual's sites?

It has always been a problem to discuss particular items that are currently up for sale or auction. I believe the same would be true of captured images if the item is currently up for sale.
In terms of regular dealers making people aware of their websites, websites can always be posted in a member's profile page. Perhaps dealer members could have a dealer designation on their avatar so that other members would know to look in their profile for their websites. As for updates, i would assume that active dealers are always updating their websites and that interested parties would check in from time to time anyway.

Lew · 10th July 2010, 05:09 AM

David has a point the reason we come to this forum is for knowlege and sharing thoughts,ideas of our collecting experiences. One should not use the swap rules as a reason to leave the forum.

kahnjar1 · 10th July 2010, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

David has a point the reason we come to this forum is for knowlege and sharing thoughts,ideas of our collecting experiences. One should not use the swap rules as a reason to leave the forum.

..............but why do we need to change anything??

8th July 2010, 01:15 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	You have mail Thanks for the heads up Lee, you have mail and you are most welcome to use points within for further discussions with the team. Thanks Gav

9th July 2010, 08:54 PM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	I sincerely hope that there has been more interest in this subject than the replies here suggest!! As it is too late to edit my original post, I just want to add that, in further relation to Proposal 3, that as this Forum is PRIMARILY for MEMBERS, the reply "system" of Private Messages already exists by way of the Member List, and it should be the MEMBERS CHOICE as to whether he chooses to devulge his email address. Also I wish to reitterate as other replies here have indicated, that the present situation appears to be working well, and why change something which is NOT BROKEN !! PERHAPS SOME OF THE MODERATORS WOULD CARE TO COMMENT HERE ON WHY THEY SEE THE NEED TO CHANGE THINGS?? ALSO, SINCE THIS POTENTIALLY WILL AFFECT THAT SECTION, I BELIEVE THAT THIS DISCUSSION SHOULD ALSO APPEAR AS A STICKY ON THE SWAP FORUM. Regards, Stuart Last edited by kahnjar1; 9th July 2010 at 10:39 PM.

8th July 2010, 07:07 PM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,809	Hi Lee, I am assuming the "1" would include books related to antique/ethnographic weapons of all sorts? Regarding "3"...............often a seller is prepared to accept "reasonable offers" on an item or may not have a clue as to an items worth, OR may have several items for sale and would prefer to deal with GENUINE buyers rather than "tire kickers". I agree with all other proposed requirements of this rule but would personally prefer to see the need to state a price removed. Also don't forget that this Forum covers "wanted" ads which it would impossible to put a price on. While I accept the need for rules, I would not like to see things get too cumbersome or restrictive. Status quo seems to be working OK????????? Regards Stuart

8th July 2010, 07:29 PM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,459	Hi Lee, Why changing the rules as it is working as it is now? Here my opinion: About 1, 2 and 5 agreed. About 3: I don't agree, because sometimes you can come to a price, swap, after letting people on the forum know that you are considering letting a piece go....Maybe somebody wants it badly enough to offer a price that the owner will pulled over the line to let it go for. Than 2 collectors are happy. The one who sold/swapped it, and the one who needed this piece to complete his collection.... About 4: don't agree. What is the problem of letting collectors know that there is something on auction or for sale on a personal website or ebay? What's wrong of showing people were to find stuff they collect? Nobody is forced to visit the website or ebay link and also nobody is forced to buy an item... Just my opinion! Rg, Maurice

8th July 2010, 10:52 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Hello Lee, I feel that too much rules might slowly suficate this forum. Look at the keris swap forum... We extensivley discussed the rules and I am happy that we banned "profesional" traders on that part (as they where often selling newly made and/or pimped up crap á blingbling ). But on the entno swap I don't see much crappy stuff being offered. I am happy with the updates that certain traders post there. (although if needed I can ofcourse sign up to there newsletters.) But, if I sign up to their newsletters I have one reason less to visit the swap, so one reason less to visit the forum So my opinion on nr. 4 : don't agree As for point 3. An asking price would be appreciated, but is not absolutely necesarry for me. mentioning an e-mail address. No, rather not. I don't mind being contacted by forum members, but putting my e-mail address out open will mean that everybody can contact me, and above that add me to spam or mailings. Fyi, I have no spam filter and I receive "zero" spam by e-mail because I am rather choosy of where I leavy my address. So as for Nr. 3 don't agree. The other points are fine with me. Best regards, Willem

10th July 2010, 01:39 AM	#6
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Hello. I don't post too often, but I have used the Swap Forum to trade pieces with other collectors/dealers in the past. I haven't posted anything in the past with prices, because when I trade, prices aren't discussed, due to the fact that everyone usually has an idea of what they want, or what they think your piece/pieces are worth. As far as taking away the ability to advertise personal websites....I have one, and although it is ethnographic, I haven't advertised it here because it isn't weapons based. The sites that are advertised in the swap forum are weapons based, and from time to time the site owners will remind us that they are still updating the sites, or having sales, etc. If you block them from advertising, will people discussing particular items from so and so's website (past or present) be a problem? What about people using captured images of pieces from other individual's sites? As for ebay, I have both sold and bought there, and don't really see a problem with linking ads to it. I've seen people post on the swap forum first, and after a while post that they have moved the item to ebay, because of lack of interest. My thought is just to keep things as they are. Thanks, Joe

10th July 2010, 02:07 AM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm not an active user of the swap forum, but I'm not happy with some of these rules: 1. General: Vikingsword is easy to get to on Google and is also cited as a reputable source on Wikipedia. In other words, anything posted here is readily findable. How much information did you want to post about ourselves and our collections on this extremely public site? If I was running a scam, this would be among the first places I would look for plausible information. 2. We don't give appraisals, but you want us to post asking prices? These policies seem to be contradictory. 3. The biggest question: what will it improve? --Will it stop scams? Absolutely not. --Will it make us and our collections less secure? A bit. We would have to link an object with a price, an online name, and an email. It's the risk we take selling stuff online, but since it won't stop scams, I'm not sure what it will do. 4. Links to commercial sites: I'm absolutely unclear about why this is warranted. Here's an example: I'm working on getting a manuscript published, and I know that it might be of interest to people here. When it gets published, I was planning on posting a link to amazon so that people could buy it if interested. That's obviously a no go under these rules. But it would be okay if I posted that information in the main discussion forum? How about if I posted a link to a museum gift store as opposed to Amazon? Right now, I'm on the list of people who don't understand what problems these rules are intended to fix. Best, F

10th July 2010, 05:09 AM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	David has a point the reason we come to this forum is for knowlege and sharing thoughts,ideas of our collecting experiences. One should not use the swap rules as a reason to leave the forum.