A rose by any other name ---

Tatyana Dianova · 31st May 2010, 07:35 AM

Very informative article! Alan, thank you very much for posting it.

ALEX · 31st May 2010, 08:45 AM

Very interesting indeed. Thank you, Alan!
Apart from different metal/iron being used, what other differences in the "working" process do you think are comparing to "real Damascus/Mechanical or Wootz" blade production, or is it essentially the same, i.e. forging, heating and cooling, welding, quenching. etc?

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2010, 02:48 PM

The similarity between mechanical damascus and blister steel produced by the cementation method is in the bringing together of small pieces of material to make a big piece of material. That's where the similarity stops.

Blister steel is made by taking rods of iron and layering those rods between powdered charcoal which is heated to white hot in a sealed box over a lengthy period. At the end of the process the small iron rods have absorbed carbon and have been turned into steel, and have all been cemented together. That's why its called the "cementation" process.The blister steel is then subjected to forging, which can also involve stacking and welding, to produce shear steel.

Mechanical damascus involves taking (usually) steel and iron and welding those materials together in a forge, then rewelding a number of times until a number of layers of alternate iron and steel have been built up.

Wootz is a product of the smelting process whereby carbon is introduced to the iron during the smelt. I seem to recall I've read a complete description of the process in this Forum at some time in the past. Wootz can be quite difficult to forge and heat treat.

To give economical form to any of these materials it is necessary to forge them. It would be possible to just take a billet of shear steel, or mechanical damascus and grind something from it, but the result would be expensive and would not maximise the qualities of the material. All these materials should be forged to shape.

The quench comes into consideration when you need to harden the material to give it a durable edge, but following the quench it is usually desireable to draw some of the hardness to guard against edge chipping or breakage. I say "usually", because with both mechanical damascus and wootz the smith will make the decision on the heat-treat in accordance with the use to which the blade or tool will be put, and he might decide that a draw is not necessary.

I've never worked with wootz, so I cannot speak with any authority on exactly what can and cannot be done with it in respect of forging and heat-treat.

Jens Nordlunde · 31st May 2010, 04:37 PM

I read somewhere long ago, that they used horseshoes, nails and odd pieces of iron/steel if they did not have anything else, or to ‘stretch’ the material. Is that what you call blister steel?

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2010, 12:12 AM

Jens, I have twice explained what blister steel is.

I cannot explain this any more clearly.

I apologise for my inability to make this clear to you.

31st May 2010, 07:35 AM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Very informative article! Alan, thank you very much for posting it.

31st May 2010, 08:45 AM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Very interesting indeed. Thank you, Alan! Apart from different metal/iron being used, what other differences in the "working" process do you think are comparing to "real Damascus/Mechanical or Wootz" blade production, or is it essentially the same, i.e. forging, heating and cooling, welding, quenching. etc?

31st May 2010, 02:48 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The similarity between mechanical damascus and blister steel produced by the cementation method is in the bringing together of small pieces of material to make a big piece of material. That's where the similarity stops. Blister steel is made by taking rods of iron and layering those rods between powdered charcoal which is heated to white hot in a sealed box over a lengthy period. At the end of the process the small iron rods have absorbed carbon and have been turned into steel, and have all been cemented together. That's why its called the "cementation" process.The blister steel is then subjected to forging, which can also involve stacking and welding, to produce shear steel. Mechanical damascus involves taking (usually) steel and iron and welding those materials together in a forge, then rewelding a number of times until a number of layers of alternate iron and steel have been built up. Wootz is a product of the smelting process whereby carbon is introduced to the iron during the smelt. I seem to recall I've read a complete description of the process in this Forum at some time in the past. Wootz can be quite difficult to forge and heat treat. To give economical form to any of these materials it is necessary to forge them. It would be possible to just take a billet of shear steel, or mechanical damascus and grind something from it, but the result would be expensive and would not maximise the qualities of the material. All these materials should be forged to shape. The quench comes into consideration when you need to harden the material to give it a durable edge, but following the quench it is usually desireable to draw some of the hardness to guard against edge chipping or breakage. I say "usually", because with both mechanical damascus and wootz the smith will make the decision on the heat-treat in accordance with the use to which the blade or tool will be put, and he might decide that a draw is not necessary. I've never worked with wootz, so I cannot speak with any authority on exactly what can and cannot be done with it in respect of forging and heat-treat.

31st May 2010, 04:37 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I read somewhere long ago, that they used horseshoes, nails and odd pieces of iron/steel if they did not have anything else, or to ‘stretch’ the material. Is that what you call blister steel?

1st June 2010, 12:12 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jens, I have twice explained what blister steel is. I cannot explain this any more clearly. I apologise for my inability to make this clear to you.