Jian Id help needed

Philip · 28th May 2010, 09:54 PM

This sword is one of a small number of jian, dating from the Ming through Qing Dynasties, with flat, discoid guards patterned after those characteristic of peidao (sabers). Many of these rare forms are sumptuously-fitted weapons, perhaps the most well known is one with gilt bronze fittings, attributed to the Qianlong Emperor, now in the Musee de l'Armee, Paris. Occasionally one encounters a heavy example of rustic manufacture, with very simple, village-made iron fittings, put together during the 19h cent., sometimes with a much earlier blade, others having a completely "home-made" appearance.

Jason Anstey · 29th May 2010, 02:24 AM

Many thanks Philip!

You wouldn't perchance have any close ups of the tsuba (sorry I don't have correct knowledge of Chinese swords nomenclature)

Cheers

Jason

Philip · 29th May 2010, 09:42 PM

Hi, Jason
Sorry I don't have pics of this, the sword is in a private collection and I don't have access to it. Those flat plate-like guards are called "pan hushou" (plate/platter protect hand is the literal translation).

Jason Anstey · 30th May 2010, 02:41 AM

THanks for the info Philip.

josh stout · 7th June 2010, 02:38 PM

As Phillip mentioned the disk guards are slightly more common on more rustic examples. I have two, one put together in the 19th c. with an older blade. The other is likely older, and the guard was made at the same time as the blade. The 19th c. version does not have a tapering handle like most jian, but was put together like a dao with a jian blade, while the older one has a tapering handle more typical of jian.

Even among rustic weapons the disk guards are not common. I would estimate their frequency at less than one in a hundred. Interestingly, dao with jian type guards are fairly common. On some, such as the dadao, it is somewhat unusual to find a disk guard.

I suspect that the extra protection of a disk guard was not worth the pain of having it digging into the person carrying it. So we rarely see it on dadao carried on the back, rarely on jian carried around as status items, and more commonly on rustic jian that were probably not carried on a regular basis.

The disk guards are almost ubiquitous on military dao where presumably the extra protection was worth the added effort.
Josh

werecow · 1st March 2023, 10:30 PM

Since someone mentioned the seven stars trading company: I believe this is the same sword as shown in more detail and discussed at the end of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmT1SN8J04&t=858s

JoeCanada42 · 2nd March 2023, 12:50 AM

thank you Werecow, I appreciate you!

28th May 2010, 09:54 PM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Jian with saber-type handguards This sword is one of a small number of jian, dating from the Ming through Qing Dynasties, with flat, discoid guards patterned after those characteristic of peidao (sabers). Many of these rare forms are sumptuously-fitted weapons, perhaps the most well known is one with gilt bronze fittings, attributed to the Qianlong Emperor, now in the Musee de l'Armee, Paris. Occasionally one encounters a heavy example of rustic manufacture, with very simple, village-made iron fittings, put together during the 19h cent., sometimes with a much earlier blade, others having a completely "home-made" appearance.

29th May 2010, 02:24 AM	#2
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	Many thanks Philip! You wouldn't perchance have any close ups of the tsuba (sorry I don't have correct knowledge of Chinese swords nomenclature) Cheers Jason

29th May 2010, 09:42 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Hi, Jason Sorry I don't have pics of this, the sword is in a private collection and I don't have access to it. Those flat plate-like guards are called "pan hushou" (plate/platter protect hand is the literal translation).

30th May 2010, 02:41 AM	#4
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	THanks for the info Philip.

7th June 2010, 02:38 PM	#5
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	As Phillip mentioned the disk guards are slightly more common on more rustic examples. I have two, one put together in the 19th c. with an older blade. The other is likely older, and the guard was made at the same time as the blade. The 19th c. version does not have a tapering handle like most jian, but was put together like a dao with a jian blade, while the older one has a tapering handle more typical of jian. Even among rustic weapons the disk guards are not common. I would estimate their frequency at less than one in a hundred. Interestingly, dao with jian type guards are fairly common. On some, such as the dadao, it is somewhat unusual to find a disk guard. I suspect that the extra protection of a disk guard was not worth the pain of having it digging into the person carrying it. So we rarely see it on dadao carried on the back, rarely on jian carried around as status items, and more commonly on rustic jian that were probably not carried on a regular basis. The disk guards are almost ubiquitous on military dao where presumably the extra protection was worth the added effort. Josh

1st March 2023, 10:30 PM	#6
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 565	Since someone mentioned the seven stars trading company: I believe this is the same sword as shown in more detail and discussed at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmT1SN8J04&t=858s

2nd March 2023, 12:50 AM	#7
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	thank you Werecow, I appreciate you!