comments on this barung lamenation?

Rick · 4th June 2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Rick, one thing about the nice etch job is that the clear layer lines obscure/overwhelm the bevels of the blade somewhat, visually; are you saying there is a wide secondary bevel for the entire length of the edge? I'm going to reverse myself and say the applied spine may be very interesting, and maybe even it and the edge were put on as one, the way t Obach said; I'm all at sea now with this piece

Any chance of a photo of the spine? Is the layering visible at the spine fairly consistant over the length?

If a bevel is a flat angle or 'facet' then there is no secondary bevel .
The curve down to the apex of the edge starts about 1" in .
The spine shows a pretty consistent tripartite layer arrangement .
I'll try to get a photo but may not succeed .
Stay tuned ........

Federico · 4th June 2005, 05:42 PM

Tom

Shandigan barongs, the edge is more like someone re-inforced by adding steel to the cutting edge on a regular barong, vs hollow grinding it out. The normal part starts as a regular flat grind, but then about half an inch from the edge it poofs out into a new thick edge which is convex. Really no hollow grinding done at all, and by my eye it would be forged in, trying to flat grind all the material with hand tools would just be way to time consuming and a waste of steel. Particularly where the reinforced edge meets the normal flat on mine, it is somewhat rounded (not a good word but all I can think of right now), not consistent with a grinding.

Rick · 4th June 2005, 08:18 PM

Best I could do Tom .
Spunjer , could we get a shot of the spine on your barung ?

Spunjer · 4th June 2005, 11:55 PM

not exactly sure what you're asking about shandigans, tom, so i took some pictures of the blade from a different angles, if this help you any further. as for the spine rick, this is the best i can do. hope this helps.

tom hyle · 6th June 2005, 10:14 AM

Thanks. Federico, that's just what I wanted to know. Still pretty far at sea as to what's going on with the spine of your sword, Rick; my guess is still that there is an applied spine whose internal structure (the stripe) is incidental and of no particular relation to the rest of the blade, but it's crossed out of anything I personally have seen or can readily explain in practical terms without further knowlege (ie sword in hand, 1/2 a cigarette and some good staring, and I could probably tell you A LOT more, and be much more certain about it; it's really hard to work from photos in these matters; much must be guessed at and interpretted.). I don't think Gt Obach's idea that applied edge and spine are the same (butt welded) piece is correct: it seems an uncharacteristic waste of edge steel, but I suppose it's possible. I can't tell from the picture whether there is indeed a central stripe of another alloy on the spine, or whether such is deliberate, or whether it's just a randomish variation in folded grain. I'm not seeing a real distinct stripe; I kinda sorta see one; that could be the photo.......

Gt Obach · 6th June 2005, 04:25 PM

bizarre... I'm changing my opinion..... looking at the spine of Rick's knife I am agreeing with Tom...

- the edge was and spine was formed by inserting the core (with a scarfed edge) into a "V" shaped steel bar .... then welded shut

- this is revealed on the spine....... the flat of the spine is ground in.... removing the tip/edge of the steel in order to expose the core material...
- so when looking at it from the spine you see two steel outer plates with a black line/central core showing or exposed..

at first I was opposed to this view......it is alot of work, and I can see no gain from it to justify the extra work.....

-also..... a buttweld is not weaker..... if properly scarfed, clean surface, fluxed with borax.....and heated to proper temp........ hammered with proper pressure...... ... solid phase welding will occur !
- this process is done with numerous swords (euro's)

just goes to show you.........there are many paths to producing laminates

Greg

4th June 2005, 08:18 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Spine Shot Best I could do Tom . Spunjer , could we get a shot of the spine on your barung ? Attached Images

4th June 2005, 11:55 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	not exactly sure what you're asking about shandigans, tom, so i took some pictures of the blade from a different angles, if this help you any further. as for the spine rick, this is the best i can do. hope this helps. Attached Images

4th June 2005, 05:42 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Tom Shandigan barongs, the edge is more like someone re-inforced by adding steel to the cutting edge on a regular barong, vs hollow grinding it out. The normal part starts as a regular flat grind, but then about half an inch from the edge it poofs out into a new thick edge which is convex. Really no hollow grinding done at all, and by my eye it would be forged in, trying to flat grind all the material with hand tools would just be way to time consuming and a waste of steel. Particularly where the reinforced edge meets the normal flat on mine, it is somewhat rounded (not a good word but all I can think of right now), not consistent with a grinding.

6th June 2005, 10:14 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Thanks. Federico, that's just what I wanted to know. Still pretty far at sea as to what's going on with the spine of your sword, Rick; my guess is still that there is an applied spine whose internal structure (the stripe) is incidental and of no particular relation to the rest of the blade, but it's crossed out of anything I personally have seen or can readily explain in practical terms without further knowlege (ie sword in hand, 1/2 a cigarette and some good staring, and I could probably tell you A LOT more, and be much more certain about it; it's really hard to work from photos in these matters; much must be guessed at and interpretted.). I don't think Gt Obach's idea that applied edge and spine are the same (butt welded) piece is correct: it seems an uncharacteristic waste of edge steel, but I suppose it's possible. I can't tell from the picture whether there is indeed a central stripe of another alloy on the spine, or whether such is deliberate, or whether it's just a randomish variation in folded grain. I'm not seeing a real distinct stripe; I kinda sorta see one; that could be the photo.......

6th June 2005, 04:25 PM	#6
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	bizarre... I'm changing my opinion..... looking at the spine of Rick's knife I am agreeing with Tom... - the edge was and spine was formed by inserting the core (with a scarfed edge) into a "V" shaped steel bar .... then welded shut - this is revealed on the spine....... the flat of the spine is ground in.... removing the tip/edge of the steel in order to expose the core material... - so when looking at it from the spine you see two steel outer plates with a black line/central core showing or exposed.. at first I was opposed to this view......it is alot of work, and I can see no gain from it to justify the extra work..... -also..... a buttweld is not weaker..... if properly scarfed, clean surface, fluxed with borax.....and heated to proper temp........ hammered with proper pressure...... ... solid phase welding will occur ! - this process is done with numerous swords (euro's) just goes to show you.........there are many paths to producing laminates Greg