Comments on the blade of this Moro Kris?

Rick · 3rd June 2005, 10:14 PM

Michael , you're great !
Pictures on demand !

This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword :

Lew · 3rd June 2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Michael , you're great !
Pictures on demand !

This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword :

I stand corrected!

Lew

Rick · 3rd June 2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I stand corrected!

Lew

Hi Lew , when I first wondered about a resist I was wondering if the pattern itself was drawn in wax . Now I'm thinking that the smooth edges were the resist covered area and the acid was allowed to work on the center panel to bring out the patterning .

BluErf · 3rd June 2005, 11:49 PM

Our fellow forumnite, Mr Paul De Souza, has a Sulu Moro kris with identical sheath. This is the 3rd example I've seen (2nd one was on ebay). Very nicely executed piece.

The blade looks very different though. Sorry I do not have a picture with me. Paul's piece is a luk 5 piece, also with a centre etch. However, blade is very slim and lanky. This blade here feels broad and substantial. Maybe a difference between newer-style and older-style blade?

Rick · 4th June 2005, 12:03 AM

Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule .

( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode

)

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 03:17 AM

The shandigan kris again

Perhaps a butt weld goes with shanidgization...............?..........
Any old kris sundang I've ever handled and examined in person seemed like san mai type lamination. Just saying......
That one closeup looks distinctly like faked pattern, but if so it lacks the usual mistakes that prove so, and it does seem to "run off" the edges of the center panel a bit, as real pattern might do.....I would mention that lam lines in the other part of the blade don't mean much as to faked/real pattern; most old blades with faked pattern are folded/laminated, just not interestingly/complexly.
Real interesting parrallelism to the premedieval and medieval German "Viking" swords (and spears; there was a panelled spear, although it was AFAIK made san-mai style, with overlayed, not thrulayed etched patterned panels.).

Federico · 4th June 2005, 06:15 AM

I have the feeling there was not a wax resist done. If you look at the transition border between the polish and etched area, as well as the lamination hints in the tip, there is a raggedness that is very consistent with after the fact polish vs a more precise wax resist. Also, the polish of the rest of the blade has a very odd grit look, not really typical to these pieces. Looks like an aggressive modern stone vs older pieces. I dunno, hard to explain, Ive just polished enough of these swords to recognise the look.

nechesh · 4th June 2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule .

( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode

)

Yes Rick, there is only so much the kris lust centers (KLC

) of my brain can stand!

tom hyle · 4th June 2005, 04:35 PM

I'd like to add concerning the idea that the pattern could be faked, that the way it seems to go linear and lose its complex pattern toward the end of the etched area seems to argue for it being real.

3rd June 2005, 10:14 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Michael , you're great ! Pictures on demand ! This is no wax resist ; I think that if it were etched (please don't) it would show an added on edge of regular laminate much as my budiak has or this sword : Attached Images

3rd June 2005, 11:49 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Our fellow forumnite, Mr Paul De Souza, has a Sulu Moro kris with identical sheath. This is the 3rd example I've seen (2nd one was on ebay). Very nicely executed piece. The blade looks very different though. Sorry I do not have a picture with me. Paul's piece is a luk 5 piece, also with a centre etch. However, blade is very slim and lanky. This blade here feels broad and substantial. Maybe a difference between newer-style and older-style blade?

4th June 2005, 12:03 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Most likely Blu , the older blades were much narrower as a general rule . ( No , I'm not going to post another pic of my 'archaic' kris ; Nechesh would explode )

4th June 2005, 03:17 AM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The shandigan kris again Perhaps a butt weld goes with shanidgization...............?.......... Any old kris sundang I've ever handled and examined in person seemed like san mai type lamination. Just saying...... That one closeup looks distinctly like faked pattern, but if so it lacks the usual mistakes that prove so, and it does seem to "run off" the edges of the center panel a bit, as real pattern might do.....I would mention that lam lines in the other part of the blade don't mean much as to faked/real pattern; most old blades with faked pattern are folded/laminated, just not interestingly/complexly. Real interesting parrallelism to the premedieval and medieval German "Viking" swords (and spears; there was a panelled spear, although it was AFAIK made san-mai style, with overlayed, not thrulayed etched patterned panels.).

4th June 2005, 06:15 AM	#7
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I have the feeling there was not a wax resist done. If you look at the transition border between the polish and etched area, as well as the lamination hints in the tip, there is a raggedness that is very consistent with after the fact polish vs a more precise wax resist. Also, the polish of the rest of the blade has a very odd grit look, not really typical to these pieces. Looks like an aggressive modern stone vs older pieces. I dunno, hard to explain, Ive just polished enough of these swords to recognise the look.

4th June 2005, 04:35 PM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I'd like to add concerning the idea that the pattern could be faked, that the way it seems to go linear and lose its complex pattern toward the end of the etched area seems to argue for it being real.