Masai Spear for comment and a few questions

Martin Lubojacky · 2nd May 2010, 06:09 PM

Hi David,
I missed yor message of April 22. I do not know much about Masai spears, but you can find information in "African Arms and Armour" by Christopher Spring. Maybe it could be useful to find out age of the wooden shaft (museoarteescienza.com) ?
Regards,

Martin

Tim Simmons · 3rd May 2010, 05:30 PM

Perhaps the only way to tell if a long spear blade is made from imported rod which would make a good spear. Is to look at the blade closely for signs of folding in more steel/iron, in a way lamination {which turns so many on} really just very skilled forge welding building up the spear blade. That's got to be better than so many swords especially Kaskara.

katana · 4th May 2010, 09:18 PM

Hi Tim and Martin

,
thanks for the replies. Tim you've some very nice examples there

. I agree that the craftsmanship involved in the manufacture of these spearheads rival many a sword blade (albeit an 'untempered' one).

According to Spring, a number of this type of spear are made by Bantu blacksmiths for the Masai....I get the impression that the better quality ones are made by them.
There is information regarding the various warrior groups 'classification' via their shield's markings/colours, and although mentioned, spears are also...but with no descriptions/pictures of the markings.

There is evidence that the original meanings of the various markings is now lost amongst 'modern' Masai .....and that, today , coloured plastic bands are now used.

The suggestion here, is that, marked spear butts are likely older. And if correct, the spear would be more likely to have been used in a Lion hunt. Unexpectedly, I found a reference to the Long bladed Masai spear in Robert Wilkinson-Latham's "Swords"....

".....Spears with long tapering heads similar to a sword blade, short shafts and long ferrule were the weapons of the Masai and seem to be the most effective of spears...."

Kind Regards David

Apparently slavers travelling through Masai territory would trade iron and copper wire, beads etc for 'safe passage'. I have not found any reference to iron rods traded (but would be a better 'raw' material for the blacksmiths).

Tim Simmons · 5th May 2010, 05:48 PM

David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

katana · 5th May 2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

Hi Tim,
a number of references mentioned that the blades were untempered...however, I have just checked this one ....and its tempered

I believe mine is an example of the Bantu blacksmiths craft. Perhaps those produced by the Masai were untempered. I will try and 're-discover' the references I mentioned earlier. Are all yours tempered?

Best Regards David

kronckew · 5th May 2010, 09:00 PM

i've seen an old b&w video of an old masai lion hunt in which a spearman missed the lion & the spear bent dramatically. he retrieved it, straightened it and carried on. maybe a hardened and tempered spear like that could break rather than bend and a broken spear is useless.

also there is the old roman pilum reasoning, if used in warfare throwing a spear into an opponents shield where it would bend and encumber the enemy to force him to abandon the shield, or if missed would bend and render it incapable of being thrown back at it's owner until it hand been straightened, made sense.

Tim Simmons · 6th May 2010, 10:05 AM

All the steel spears I have are tempered. Some seem more so than others, like many swords. Even a smaller South African {Zulu type} spear I have the steel has been folded in the forge and has a good temper. I imaging the tempering of a long old Massai spear is more difficult and so results may well vary. I am sure we have all come across bent swords.

2nd May 2010, 06:09 PM	#1
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hi David, I missed yor message of April 22. I do not know much about Masai spears, but you can find information in "African Arms and Armour" by Christopher Spring. Maybe it could be useful to find out age of the wooden shaft (museoarteescienza.com) ? Regards, Martin

3rd May 2010, 05:30 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Perhaps the only way to tell if a long spear blade is made from imported rod which would make a good spear. Is to look at the blade closely for signs of folding in more steel/iron, in a way lamination {which turns so many on} really just very skilled forge welding building up the spear blade. That's got to be better than so many swords especially Kaskara.

4th May 2010, 09:18 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim and Martin , thanks for the replies. Tim you've some very nice examples there . I agree that the craftsmanship involved in the manufacture of these spearheads rival many a sword blade (albeit an 'untempered' one). According to Spring, a number of this type of spear are made by Bantu blacksmiths for the Masai....I get the impression that the better quality ones are made by them. There is information regarding the various warrior groups 'classification' via their shield's markings/colours, and although mentioned, spears are also...but with no descriptions/pictures of the markings. There is evidence that the original meanings of the various markings is now lost amongst 'modern' Masai .....and that, today , coloured plastic bands are now used. The suggestion here, is that, marked spear butts are likely older. And if correct, the spear would be more likely to have been used in a Lion hunt. Unexpectedly, I found a reference to the Long bladed Masai spear in Robert Wilkinson-Latham's "Swords".... ".....Spears with long tapering heads similar to a sword blade, short shafts and long ferrule were the weapons of the Masai and seem to be the most effective of spears...." Kind Regards David Apparently slavers travelling through Masai territory would trade iron and copper wire, beads etc for 'safe passage'. I have not found any reference to iron rods traded (but would be a better 'raw' material for the blacksmiths).

5th May 2010, 05:48 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

5th May 2010, 09:00 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i've seen an old b&w video of an old masai lion hunt in which a spearman missed the lion & the spear bent dramatically. he retrieved it, straightened it and carried on. maybe a hardened and tempered spear like that could break rather than bend and a broken spear is useless. also there is the old roman pilum reasoning, if used in warfare throwing a spear into an opponents shield where it would bend and encumber the enemy to force him to abandon the shield, or if missed would bend and render it incapable of being thrown back at it's owner until it hand been straightened, made sense.

6th May 2010, 10:05 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	All the steel spears I have are tempered. Some seem more so than others, like many swords. Even a smaller South African {Zulu type} spear I have the steel has been folded in the forge and has a good temper. I imaging the tempering of a long old Massai spear is more difficult and so results may well vary. I am sure we have all come across bent swords.