Interesting big sized javanese keris

A. G. Maisey · 28th April 2010, 04:28 AM

A few more.

A. G. Maisey · 28th April 2010, 04:30 AM

And a few more.

A. G. Maisey · 29th April 2010, 10:49 AM

The examples of wood that I posted yesterday have been viewed 110 times since they were posted.

It appears that none of these 110 views has been sufficient to permit any of the viewers to identify the examples of kemuning.

Here are the woods that I know with absolute certainty:-

akasia:-

6, 4, 3, 2, 11, 8, 16

pau marfin:-

13, 21

Tasmanian blackwood:-

22

#1 is probably akasia, but I am not certain.

the following numbers I am uncertain of; I can guess that some are kemuning, but I do not know with absolute certainty that this is the case:-

20, 10, 9, 7, 5, 18, 17, 15, 12, 19, 23 & 23.

Note:- I made an error in numbering, there are two examples identified as #23

Sajen · 29th April 2010, 10:34 PM

Yup, who want to be sure about the sort of wood after this discussion? You show us with conclusive arguments how difficult it is to destine the nature of a wood. On the other hand you also suspect that the shown wrongkos from Bugis and Peninsula are possible kemuning.
Who have read this thread will be in future more distrustful by descriptions from sellers which wood is used by a wrongko/sarung of a keris.

A. G. Maisey · 29th April 2010, 11:35 PM

Yes Sajen, that was the point of the exercise.

As we have commented time and time again:-

here, we are looking at images of objects, wood included, not the actual object

it is often very difficult to be too certain about anything.

I do believe some of the Bugis and Peninsula examples are kemuning, but I don't really know, because the kemuning I have seen and handled most of has been only as big as a jejeran, and nearly always stained. It is entirely possible that there are other local woods used in these Bugis and Peninsula examples that I do not know.

kai · 30th April 2010, 07:55 AM

Hello Alan,

Quote:

I do believe some of the Bugis and Peninsula examples are kemuning, but I don't really know, because the kemuning I have seen and handled most of has been only as big as a jejeran, and nearly always stained. It is entirely possible that there are other local woods used in these Bugis and Peninsula examples that I do not know.

Another contributing factor is the climate (in addition to the local growing conditions) which can have a pronounced effect on such figured woods: e. g. #9 seems to show the effect of a more pronounced monsoonal climate like in northern Malaya but the results on the wood can be much stronger. Will add pics later.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 30th April 2010, 09:15 AM

I think I'm missing your point here Kai.

We can find figure such as fiddle back and curly grain of various types in many different trees from the artic circle to the tropics.

One of the major types of curly figure is what we call compression grain, this is where you get figure as the result of constant prevailing winds, or it can occur adjacent to a large branch, where it will often finish up as feather crotch or one of the other crotch variants.

Genetics can also play a role in providing fancy figure, and there also seems to be a strng argument for mineral uptake from the soil having an influence.

What I am saying here is all opinion that I have picked up from being around cabinet makers, stock makers, and musical instrument makers for most of my life. It is if you like, "trade belief".

To the best of my knowledge the academics who study this type of thing have not yet come up with any definite reasons for the formation of fancy figure in wood, about all they seem to be able to say is that there are many reasons for this occurrence of fancy grain, and those reasons are not yet fully understood..

Can you expand on your statement, especially the effect that a monsoonal climate can have in creating a curly grain?

28th April 2010, 04:28 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	A few more. Attached Images

28th April 2010, 04:30 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	And a few more. Attached Images

29th April 2010, 10:49 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	The examples of wood that I posted yesterday have been viewed 110 times since they were posted. It appears that none of these 110 views has been sufficient to permit any of the viewers to identify the examples of kemuning. Here are the woods that I know with absolute certainty:- akasia:- 6, 4, 3, 2, 11, 8, 16 pau marfin:- 13, 21 Tasmanian blackwood:- 22 #1 is probably akasia, but I am not certain. the following numbers I am uncertain of; I can guess that some are kemuning, but I do not know with absolute certainty that this is the case:- 20, 10, 9, 7, 5, 18, 17, 15, 12, 19, 23 & 23. Note:- I made an error in numbering, there are two examples identified as #23

29th April 2010, 10:34 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,309	Yup, who want to be sure about the sort of wood after this discussion? You show us with conclusive arguments how difficult it is to destine the nature of a wood. On the other hand you also suspect that the shown wrongkos from Bugis and Peninsula are possible kemuning. Who have read this thread will be in future more distrustful by descriptions from sellers which wood is used by a wrongko/sarung of a keris.

29th April 2010, 11:35 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yes Sajen, that was the point of the exercise. As we have commented time and time again:- here, we are looking at images of objects, wood included, not the actual object it is often very difficult to be too certain about anything. I do believe some of the Bugis and Peninsula examples are kemuning, but I don't really know, because the kemuning I have seen and handled most of has been only as big as a jejeran, and nearly always stained. It is entirely possible that there are other local woods used in these Bugis and Peninsula examples that I do not know.

30th April 2010, 09:15 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I think I'm missing your point here Kai. We can find figure such as fiddle back and curly grain of various types in many different trees from the artic circle to the tropics. One of the major types of curly figure is what we call compression grain, this is where you get figure as the result of constant prevailing winds, or it can occur adjacent to a large branch, where it will often finish up as feather crotch or one of the other crotch variants. Genetics can also play a role in providing fancy figure, and there also seems to be a strng argument for mineral uptake from the soil having an influence. What I am saying here is all opinion that I have picked up from being around cabinet makers, stock makers, and musical instrument makers for most of my life. It is if you like, "trade belief". To the best of my knowledge the academics who study this type of thing have not yet come up with any definite reasons for the formation of fancy figure in wood, about all they seem to be able to say is that there are many reasons for this occurrence of fancy grain, and those reasons are not yet fully understood.. Can you expand on your statement, especially the effect that a monsoonal climate can have in creating a curly grain?