Interesting big sized javanese keris

A. G. Maisey · 26th April 2010, 10:15 PM

These photos are from a sales site.

Please re-read what I have already written about salesmen's descriptions.

On this site is also shown akasia, however, the colour of the wood shown bears no resemblance to akasia.

The wood identified as kemuning is textbook akasia colour and grain. To confirm that it is akasia it would need to be handled.

Wood big enough for a wrongko and with a chatoyant grain must come from either a branch junction (in some instances) or from the root area. You need a very big tree to get chatoyant grain.

It is a very, very long time since there have been big kemuning trees in Jawa. In 40 years I have never seen large pieces of kemuning wood for sale. Never.

However, this wrongko identified on this sales site has every appearance of a new wrongko.

Perhaps the very worst source of information for somebody who knows very, very little about keris is an Indonesian seller of keris.

There is at least one error in the the other site too.

Ria · 27th April 2010, 03:39 AM

Dear Alan,

I have some info to share.

I referred my pictures below. Here in my place, people liked to name it as tumbuk lada instead or siwar/sewar.

When I ordered a new dress for this siwar from tukang in Terengganu, Malaysia, I have specifically asked for kemuning. He admitted this wood very hard to find and managed to get some of it.

I do not know wether he correct about kemuning, but majority people in my place believed it is kemuning.

I provide a picture of the wood before and after polishing.

Regards,

Ria

A. G. Maisey · 27th April 2010, 04:00 AM

I thank you for these photos Pak Ria.

All I can say is that both your chatoyant yellow wood, and the chatoyant yellow wood in the other photograph have the precise appearance of akasia.

If you tell me that you have been told by the tukang wrongko that it is kemuning, I believe you.

The only kemuning that I have seen, and that I know was kemuning, has been in old Peninsula and Bugis wrongkos. It has been hard, and the chatoyant grain has had the nature of a sunburst, rather than the consistent fiddleback grain that I can see in the other wrongko and in your scabbard. I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain, but I have seen Javanese hilts with a fiddleback grain.

On the other hand, I have seen a lot of wrongkos made from akasia that do have the consistent fiddleback grain that is shown in your scabbard and in the other wrongko.

We're working with photos here, not the real thing, but based upon what I can see in the photos I would without hesitation say that I'm looking at akasia, simply because I have never seen any verifiable kemuning that looks anything like this, but I have seen a great deal of akasia that looks precisely like it.

I have also seen other woods that are close to kemuning in colour, and that have a fiddleback grain, and that have been used in wrongkos, such as paumarfin--- a South American wood that a dealer in Jawa imported a very large quantity of from Sth America about 30 years ago.

But if you tell me that your scabbard is kemuning, I believe you; its just that this is the only piece of kemuning that I've ever seen that looks like this --- except for the wrongko in the previous linked site.

One of the facts of life is that akasia is a wood that has only begun to be used in the recent past. It has no history, and no esoterica attached to it. In fact, although it is sourced from Indonesian trees, I'm not even certain that it is an Indonesian idigenous wood. Its always easier to sell something if that something can be linked to a little bit of tradition. Akasia has no tradition.

EDIT

Above I said

"I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain"

This is possibly an incorrect statement.

What is perhaps more correct is:-

I have never seen wood in a wrongko atasan with a fiddleback grain that I knew was definitely kemuning

David · 27th April 2010, 12:19 PM

In recent years it was discovered that Sushi restaurants were substituting Tilapia for Red Snapper and not saying anything. The Tilapia is cheaper and more available. If some suspicious persons hadn't decided to do DNA testing we might never have known. Who knows, in 30 or 40 years we might all be thinking that Tilapia WAS Red Snapper. This kind of thing happens everywhere with all things.
Of course, as it happens, i prefer Tilapia.

27th April 2010, 03:39 AM	#2
Ria Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 14	Kemuning Dear Alan, I have some info to share. I referred my pictures below. Here in my place, people liked to name it as tumbuk lada instead or siwar/sewar. When I ordered a new dress for this siwar from tukang in Terengganu, Malaysia, I have specifically asked for kemuning. He admitted this wood very hard to find and managed to get some of it. I do not know wether he correct about kemuning, but majority people in my place believed it is kemuning. I provide a picture of the wood before and after polishing. Regards, Ria Attached Images

27th April 2010, 04:00 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	I thank you for these photos Pak Ria. All I can say is that both your chatoyant yellow wood, and the chatoyant yellow wood in the other photograph have the precise appearance of akasia. If you tell me that you have been told by the tukang wrongko that it is kemuning, I believe you. The only kemuning that I have seen, and that I know was kemuning, has been in old Peninsula and Bugis wrongkos. It has been hard, and the chatoyant grain has had the nature of a sunburst, rather than the consistent fiddleback grain that I can see in the other wrongko and in your scabbard. I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain, but I have seen Javanese hilts with a fiddleback grain. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of wrongkos made from akasia that do have the consistent fiddleback grain that is shown in your scabbard and in the other wrongko. We're working with photos here, not the real thing, but based upon what I can see in the photos I would without hesitation say that I'm looking at akasia, simply because I have never seen any verifiable kemuning that looks anything like this, but I have seen a great deal of akasia that looks precisely like it. I have also seen other woods that are close to kemuning in colour, and that have a fiddleback grain, and that have been used in wrongkos, such as paumarfin--- a South American wood that a dealer in Jawa imported a very large quantity of from Sth America about 30 years ago. But if you tell me that your scabbard is kemuning, I believe you; its just that this is the only piece of kemuning that I've ever seen that looks like this --- except for the wrongko in the previous linked site. One of the facts of life is that akasia is a wood that has only begun to be used in the recent past. It has no history, and no esoterica attached to it. In fact, although it is sourced from Indonesian trees, I'm not even certain that it is an Indonesian idigenous wood. Its always easier to sell something if that something can be linked to a little bit of tradition. Akasia has no tradition. EDIT Above I said "I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain" This is possibly an incorrect statement. What is perhaps more correct is:- I have never seen wood in a wrongko atasan with a fiddleback grain that I knew was definitely kemuning Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 27th April 2010 at 11:12 PM.

26th April 2010, 10:15 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	These photos are from a sales site. Please re-read what I have already written about salesmen's descriptions. On this site is also shown akasia, however, the colour of the wood shown bears no resemblance to akasia. The wood identified as kemuning is textbook akasia colour and grain. To confirm that it is akasia it would need to be handled. Wood big enough for a wrongko and with a chatoyant grain must come from either a branch junction (in some instances) or from the root area. You need a very big tree to get chatoyant grain. It is a very, very long time since there have been big kemuning trees in Jawa. In 40 years I have never seen large pieces of kemuning wood for sale. Never. However, this wrongko identified on this sales site has every appearance of a new wrongko. Perhaps the very worst source of information for somebody who knows very, very little about keris is an Indonesian seller of keris. There is at least one error in the the other site too.

27th April 2010, 12:19 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	In recent years it was discovered that Sushi restaurants were substituting Tilapia for Red Snapper and not saying anything. The Tilapia is cheaper and more available. If some suspicious persons hadn't decided to do DNA testing we might never have known. Who knows, in 30 or 40 years we might all be thinking that Tilapia WAS Red Snapper. This kind of thing happens everywhere with all things. Of course, as it happens, i prefer Tilapia.