Interesting big sized javanese keris

Jean · 24th April 2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Hallo gustav
Your keris seems very nice and old.
Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old
Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?)
Also I think east Jawa

Hello Gustav,
As Marco suggests, did you try to file a corner of the black spot on the hilt for ensuring that it is original and not dyed?
Best regards
Jean

Gustav · 24th April 2010, 12:58 PM

Thank you for the response, Alan.

Jean, I would never file a corner of this hilt, sorry

, I would rather live with a tought it's dyed (you see now, I am not professional). I washed it finally, the wooden grain is really beautiful and good choosen. I will make some pictures when it will be dry and oiled. Material is timoho.

A. G. Maisey · 24th April 2010, 02:33 PM

Gustav, if you're certain its timoho, fair enough, end of story, but you can test without filing corners. If I wanted to test it, I'd go up inside the hole with a small very sharp knife, it is quite easy to gauge the hardness of the pale and dark wood in this way.

Sajen · 24th April 2010, 04:36 PM

Hello Alan,

I every time have problems to differentiate between kayu Trembola and kayu Kemuning (like to see

). Would you be so kind to show two examples side by side and explain the differents? Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2010, 12:04 AM

I'm sorry Sajen, but I can't do this.

I have never seen any wrongkos that the people in the circles I move in identify as kemuning. Yes, kemuning is a well known wood, and I hear kemuning mentioned here continually, but I have not ever held a wrongko in my hands that anybody I know identified as kemuning.

Trembalu , on the other hand is well known, prized, and met with fairly frequently in older pieces.

The wrongko in this thread looks exactly like what we know as trembalu, but there is a range of colour in trembalu, sometimes it can be quite a bit darker and redder than this.

As we know, colour rendition in any photos can be extremely unreliable.

Sajen · 25th April 2010, 01:22 AM

So this wrongko is also from trembalu?

Sajen · 25th April 2010, 01:23 AM

I have just searched for kemuning in old threads and looked to some books and there is said that sampirs from Bugis/Sumatera/Malay keris are often made from kemunig. And I think that for example this sampir from a other thread is worked from kemuning. I show it side by side with the wrongko from #16 to show the affinity from the grain of this both.

A. G. Maisey · 25th April 2010, 04:06 AM

The Jawa wrongko looks like trembalu to me.

I do not know the local and correct name for the wood in the Malay wrongko.

I have seen this degree of chatoyancy in many other woods, both SE Asian woods and European woods. You can find a chatoyant grain such as we see here in any number of common cabinet timbers, walnut for instance. In SE Asian timbers I've seen similar grain in scented sandalwood.

I'm afraid that from a picture of a piece of polished wood I simply cannot tell what the wood might be most of the time. I'm just not that good.

EDIT I probably should add that kemuning is certainly known in Jawa, but we know it as material for jejeran; it is ideal for this purpose because it has a tight, close, fine grain.Its a yellowish wood and needs to be stained after it has been carved. In these wrongkos with highly chatoyant grain, I don't see anything that I would recognise as kemuning.

24th April 2010, 12:58 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,275	Thank you for the response, Alan. Jean, I would never file a corner of this hilt, sorry , I would rather live with a tought it's dyed (you see now, I am not professional). I washed it finally, the wooden grain is really beautiful and good choosen. I will make some pictures when it will be dry and oiled. Material is timoho. Last edited by Gustav; 24th April 2010 at 01:38 PM.

25th April 2010, 01:22 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	So this wrongko is also from trembalu? Attached Images

25th April 2010, 01:23 AM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	I have just searched for kemuning in old threads and looked to some books and there is said that sampirs from Bugis/Sumatera/Malay keris are often made from kemunig. And I think that for example this sampir from a other thread is worked from kemuning. I show it side by side with the wrongko from #16 to show the affinity from the grain of this both. Attached Images

25th April 2010, 04:06 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	The Jawa wrongko looks like trembalu to me. I do not know the local and correct name for the wood in the Malay wrongko. I have seen this degree of chatoyancy in many other woods, both SE Asian woods and European woods. You can find a chatoyant grain such as we see here in any number of common cabinet timbers, walnut for instance. In SE Asian timbers I've seen similar grain in scented sandalwood. I'm afraid that from a picture of a piece of polished wood I simply cannot tell what the wood might be most of the time. I'm just not that good. EDIT I probably should add that kemuning is certainly known in Jawa, but we know it as material for jejeran; it is ideal for this purpose because it has a tight, close, fine grain.Its a yellowish wood and needs to be stained after it has been carved. In these wrongkos with highly chatoyant grain, I don't see anything that I would recognise as kemuning. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 25th April 2010 at 05:06 AM.

24th April 2010, 02:33 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Gustav, if you're certain its timoho, fair enough, end of story, but you can test without filing corners. If I wanted to test it, I'd go up inside the hole with a small very sharp knife, it is quite easy to gauge the hardness of the pale and dark wood in this way.

24th April 2010, 04:36 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,193	Hello Alan, I every time have problems to differentiate between kayu Trembola and kayu Kemuning (like to see ). Would you be so kind to show two examples side by side and explain the differents? Thank you in advance. Regards, Detlef

25th April 2010, 12:04 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	I'm sorry Sajen, but I can't do this. I have never seen any wrongkos that the people in the circles I move in identify as kemuning. Yes, kemuning is a well known wood, and I hear kemuning mentioned here continually, but I have not ever held a wrongko in my hands that anybody I know identified as kemuning. Trembalu , on the other hand is well known, prized, and met with fairly frequently in older pieces. The wrongko in this thread looks exactly like what we know as trembalu, but there is a range of colour in trembalu, sometimes it can be quite a bit darker and redder than this. As we know, colour rendition in any photos can be extremely unreliable.