Sword for ID ... please

[thinreadline]

I do agree with the above answer but the scabbard fittings are most un British in style

[Will M]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

I do agree with the above answer but the scabbard fittings are most un British in style

A cut down blade (reused broken blade) and repurposed could have been done in India or elsewhere.

[fernando]

Thank you guys. Most certainly the scabbard is not the original one, shortened to fit the new blade lenght, but one arranged for the purpose. This because the present one suspends with a button and the previously longer sword must have suspended with rings.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you guys. Most certainly the scabbard is not the original one, shortened to fit the new blade lenght, but one arranged for the purpose. This because the present one suspends with a button and the previously longer sword must have suspended with rings.

This is not necessarily the case. I have a full length (807mm blade) 1803 Pattern ‘Flank’ Officers sabre that only has the frog stud on the scabbard which shows no evidence of ever having had the suspension rings. One of my late 18th Century spadroons also only has the frog stud and thats a full length blade as well.

In fact almost all my swords with leather scabbards have a frog studd, even if they have suspension loops as well. Having both options offered the retailer flexibility in who the sword was sold to.

For the ones that don’t have the studd, a strong case can be made that they belonged to cavalry officers.

[fernando]

Duly noted, thank you .

[Jim McDougall]

Most interesting saber. The stirrup hilt which became well known in this form with the British M1796 light cavalry saber, was well known in good number of other countries as well. The scabbard with brass fittings and frog stud seem of course of Georgian British period, but such scabbards of leather with these kinds of fittings were widely used through other times and with other types of sabers such as pioneer, sapper etc.

As this blade is shortened as it appears per other observations, it is likely the scabbard could easily have been fashioned accordingly using donor mounts.

This blade has me intrigued, and does not seem Solingen, though the seemingly astral symbols are of the type seen on their blades. However this blade and the unusual fullers seem Eastern European, and the symbols atypical.

Any chance of better pics of the symbols?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Radboud

This is not necessarily the case. I have a full length (807mm blade) 1803 Pattern ‘Flank’ Officers sabre that only has the frog stud on the scabbard which shows no evidence of ever having had the suspension rings. One of my late 18th Century spadroons also only has the frog stud and thats a full length blade as well.

In fact almost all my swords with leather scabbards have a frog studd, even if they have suspension loops as well. Having both options offered the retailer flexibility in who the sword was sold to.

For the ones that don’t have the studd, a strong case can be made that they belonged to cavalry officers.

It seems that often these studs were a fixture on these leather brass mounted scabbards in addition to suspension rings as you note. I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

Will's suggestion of possibly India for this compellingly British hilt might be well placed as the unusually flamboyant character of the mounts. The idea of a colonial setting for this seems possible, and British officers were known for propensity for 'exotic' sword hybrids and trophy blades.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

..I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

...

...Until rifles became more prevalent on the battlefield, especially with skirmishers, who were rather fond of shooting officers, easily distinguished by being mounted. This also signalled the death-knell of infantry officers carrying swords in WW1. Maybe they still mounted for parades.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...Until rifles became more prevalent on the battlefield, especially with skirmishers, who were rather fond of shooting officers, easily distinguished by being mounted. This also signalled the death-knell of infantry officers carrying swords in WW1. Maybe they still mounted for parades.

That makes perfect sense Wayne, thank you. Your military insights always bring things into perspective.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I am wondering if perhaps flank company officers, who like infantry officers, were typically mounted might have preferred the option for both.

Only the more senior officers were allowed to ride horses, the more junior ones would have marched with their men. Being mounted would have impeded the officers’ ability to guide their men, be it in the Line companies or the ‘Flank’ Companies i.e. Grenadiers and Light Infantry.

[fernando]

Thanks again, Gentlemen. That was the only picture my friend had from the dealer. Now he got a few more.


,