Bali keris of unknown origin

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 09:37 PM

Do yourself a favour David, and replace it.

Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

David · 14th May 2022, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Do yourself a favour David, and replace it.

Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

It could happen one day. This keris needs a bit before it would be ready for court wear anyway. I found it rusting away in a curio shop window with no sheath. So that is more likely a necessity before i think about replacing the hilt. But no worries. I have no illusions that this is an good hilt. Just wanted to show that such combinations have been done more than once.

A. G. Maisey · 14th May 2022, 11:42 PM

Yeah, we've had the Bali Hilt discussion more times than once in the past.

There are a number of factors involved, I personally think that the major one is that most hilts in the modern era have not been carved by religiously conscious people, and only done for decorative effect, but there is the other thing too:- a lot of so-called "Balinese Carving" is actually done in other places where wage rates are lower.

I used to know a young bloke in Solo whose father carved perfectly beautiful small sculptures that were sold through a couple of Ubud galleries as Balinese. The Sumenep craftsmen have been carving for the Balinese market for years.

I might have seen this particular "Nawanesha" combination before, but I don't remember it, I tend to quickly pass over things for sale in Bali that are outside the bounds of tradition.

Marcokeris · 15th May 2022, 03:01 PM

Just to stay on the topic of discussion I post a photo of two wooden Madura hilts made for Bali market

A. G. Maisey · 15th May 2022, 11:00 PM

But they can produce fine quality hilts in Madura too Marco. There is a carver lives away from Sumenep, I forget the name of the place, "Bhu---" something or other, and his work is very good indeed.

Actually, the best Balinese carvers have priced themselves out of the market, and I'm not talking just keris hilts, I'm talking the entire swath of Balinese carving.

The recognised Grand Master of Balinese hilts --- I will not mention his name --- is now so expensive that he really only needs to sell one hilt a year to have a comfortable lifestyle.

His son --- or maybe its his son-in-law, I'm not clear on this --- has jacked up his prices into the realm of major art works too. Not as expensive as the Old Man, but too expensive for me.

In Solo the wood carving industry is centered on the village of Serinan, carvers from Jepara on the north coast came there years ago and settled when the competition in Jepara became too tough. All that very high quality mahogany & teak furniture that we see in expensive shops all across the world mostly comes from Serinan, and a niche market in Serinan is the making of fine Balinese style carvings, produced at a fraction of the cost that the Balinese carvers ask.

When I say "Serinan" I'm not talking just about that village, I'm referring to all the carvers in the broader Solo area who are associated with the Serinan trade.

I used to buy from a dealer in Badung, he passed about ten years ago, I dealt with him for around 35 years. He used to get very angry with both the local carvers for increasing their prices, and with the people who had generated the stuff that was produced in other places in Bali style. To his way of thinking both these groups of people were undermining the local economy in Bali.

Paul B. · 16th May 2022, 05:07 AM

The complete dress seems to be made for a Sumatran kris (with this buntut). It is a disrespectful sarong.

A. G. Maisey · 16th May 2022, 06:21 AM

Just the pendok Paul, the atasan or gambar is older Bali, the hilt is a bit of a mix of two different genuinely Balinese themes, the cup upon which the hilt sits is a sort invention, as is the treatment of the covering for the gandar.

It is what we might call a montage, a keris composed of various unrelated pieces.

The disrespect I consider to be associated with the hilt.

This sort of thing is more common than we might wish, it usually occurs when an uneducated dealer gets hold of something genuine that he wants to extract the max dollar for, and it then gets sold to a keen collector who is still learning the ropes.

I was bitten a few times a long time ago, and I'd bet most of us were.

15th May 2022, 03:01 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Just to stay on the topic of discussion I post a photo of two wooden Madura hilts made for Bali market Attached Images

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14th May 2022, 09:37 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Do yourself a favour David, and replace it. Wrapped up and into the back of the bottom drawer.

14th May 2022, 11:42 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Yeah, we've had the Bali Hilt discussion more times than once in the past. There are a number of factors involved, I personally think that the major one is that most hilts in the modern era have not been carved by religiously conscious people, and only done for decorative effect, but there is the other thing too:- a lot of so-called "Balinese Carving" is actually done in other places where wage rates are lower. I used to know a young bloke in Solo whose father carved perfectly beautiful small sculptures that were sold through a couple of Ubud galleries as Balinese. The Sumenep craftsmen have been carving for the Balinese market for years. I might have seen this particular "Nawanesha" combination before, but I don't remember it, I tend to quickly pass over things for sale in Bali that are outside the bounds of tradition.

15th May 2022, 11:00 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	But they can produce fine quality hilts in Madura too Marco. There is a carver lives away from Sumenep, I forget the name of the place, "Bhu---" something or other, and his work is very good indeed. Actually, the best Balinese carvers have priced themselves out of the market, and I'm not talking just keris hilts, I'm talking the entire swath of Balinese carving. The recognised Grand Master of Balinese hilts --- I will not mention his name --- is now so expensive that he really only needs to sell one hilt a year to have a comfortable lifestyle. His son --- or maybe its his son-in-law, I'm not clear on this --- has jacked up his prices into the realm of major art works too. Not as expensive as the Old Man, but too expensive for me. In Solo the wood carving industry is centered on the village of Serinan, carvers from Jepara on the north coast came there years ago and settled when the competition in Jepara became too tough. All that very high quality mahogany & teak furniture that we see in expensive shops all across the world mostly comes from Serinan, and a niche market in Serinan is the making of fine Balinese style carvings, produced at a fraction of the cost that the Balinese carvers ask. When I say "Serinan" I'm not talking just about that village, I'm referring to all the carvers in the broader Solo area who are associated with the Serinan trade. I used to buy from a dealer in Badung, he passed about ten years ago, I dealt with him for around 35 years. He used to get very angry with both the local carvers for increasing their prices, and with the people who had generated the stuff that was produced in other places in Bali style. To his way of thinking both these groups of people were undermining the local economy in Bali.

16th May 2022, 05:07 AM	#6
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	The complete dress seems to be made for a Sumatran kris (with this buntut). It is a disrespectful sarong.

16th May 2022, 06:21 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,989	Just the pendok Paul, the atasan or gambar is older Bali, the hilt is a bit of a mix of two different genuinely Balinese themes, the cup upon which the hilt sits is a sort invention, as is the treatment of the covering for the gandar. It is what we might call a montage, a keris composed of various unrelated pieces. The disrespect I consider to be associated with the hilt. This sort of thing is more common than we might wish, it usually occurs when an uneducated dealer gets hold of something genuine that he wants to extract the max dollar for, and it then gets sold to a keen collector who is still learning the ropes. I was bitten a few times a long time ago, and I'd bet most of us were.