Re: The oldest known handgun in existence, ca. 1400-10

Helleri · 7th August 2018, 02:47 AM

Wondering about the use of the term "hand gun" in this context. Were they generally refereed to as such at the time these were made? Are these the direct ancestors of modern handguns? Is it just that it's the best generalized term we can apply to them modernly?

fernando · 7th August 2018, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

Wondering about the use of the term "hand gun" in this context. Were they generally refereed to as such at the time these were made? Are these the direct ancestors of modern handguns? Is it just that it's the best generalized term we can apply to them modernly?

Trying to jump off the name game; i guess that, at a certain stage in this thread it was pointed out that hand gun term would (only) be of German attribution. Although (also) in this thread we can see various early fire arms types, namely haquebuts and hand cannons, i think the issue as you put it is about the late. The name, you chose it, from 手銃, to hand cannons, gonnes or handgonnes. And yes, they were the first true firearms, those ancestors of modern portable firearms.
Whether there is unequivocal evidence of their genesis, based on few (several...) existing specimens, the names how they were called by then would be a different deal, i guess; depending on how people of the various languages an in different contexts baptized the numerous variations that kept appearing.
I guess i am not talking nonsense; may always be corrected by better knowledged ones, though

.

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Paddy T. · 7th August 2018, 09:38 PM

In German there are some medieval terms like "Handbuchse", "Hantbusse", "Fustbusse", "Handror" or "Handrohr". They all mean something like "handgun" in different variations. Many original pieces are clearly handguns, but some barrels can´t be assigned to be "handguns" or "cannons (=artillery)". These weapons are definitely the ancestors of our modern handguns. The oldest european handguns are the two pieces from Tannenberg castle in Germany, but there are older ones in China.

Helleri · 8th August 2018, 07:28 AM

Great information thanks. It occurs to me that "hand cannon" is still colloquially used to occasionally refer to very large revolvers with a caliber that makes for a lot of stopping power. It's interesting how terminology like this can basically stick with us for so long and keep finding new ways in which to be applied.

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7th August 2018, 02:47 AM	#1
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Wondering about the use of the term "hand gun" in this context. Were they generally refereed to as such at the time these were made? Are these the direct ancestors of modern handguns? Is it just that it's the best generalized term we can apply to them modernly?

7th August 2018, 09:38 PM	#3
Paddy T. Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 13	In German there are some medieval terms like "Handbuchse", "Hantbusse", "Fustbusse", "Handror" or "Handrohr". They all mean something like "handgun" in different variations. Many original pieces are clearly handguns, but some barrels can´t be assigned to be "handguns" or "cannons (=artillery)". These weapons are definitely the ancestors of our modern handguns. The oldest european handguns are the two pieces from Tannenberg castle in Germany, but there are older ones in China.

8th August 2018, 07:28 AM	#4
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Great information thanks. It occurs to me that "hand cannon" is still colloquially used to occasionally refer to very large revolvers with a caliber that makes for a lot of stopping power. It's interesting how terminology like this can basically stick with us for so long and keep finding new ways in which to be applied.