Your thoughts on this rapier?

[werecow]

I bid on this rapier today. Alas, I did not win it (probably better for my wallet as I'm still "recovering" from the last sword I bought), but I am nevertheless curious about your comments as I am trying to learn more about rapiers in general.

It was sold as German, circa 1730 but that seems wrong to me (I would have guessed 16th century). The length of the grip gave me some pause as it seems relatively long for a rapier (although I find the proportions aesthetically very pleasing). The markings seem to say "Pedro Dei" or "Pedro Del" on the one side but I'm having a hard time deciphering the other side. Another thing I thought was interesting is the pommel decorations. It looks like a green man face? I've seen a lot of those on mortuary hilt sword guards but not many on rapiers.

[Merenti]

To me this is a nice authentic rapier circa 1630-1650. Iron cutting was popularly done in Italy (Milan). I saw it too, but it's in poor condition.

[fernando]

Why not Spanish; by one of those Toledo smiths ... like PEDRO DEL MONTE .

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Merenti

To me this is a nice authentic rapier circa 1630-1650. Iron cutting was popularly done in Italy (Milan). I saw it too, but it's in poor condition.

True, but the condition isn't terrible, and "a bit rusty" is probably the only kind I can afford for this kind of sword. And apparently not even that (I was not all that close)! }|:oP

Originally Posted by fernando

Why not Spanish; by one of those Toledo smiths ... like PEDRO DEL MONTE :o.

I thought it might be a reference to Pedro del Monte or even Pedro Hernandez, but there is no last name it seems, or at least I can't make it out. I can't make heads or tails of the other side. Those oval (eye?) shapes do look a little more familiar although I can't remember where I've seen them before - the closest ones were Italian marks I found on a thread on this forum (which I can't seem to find any more now), but they have another line of "lashes" surrounding the "eye".

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

... I thought it might be a reference to Pedro del Monte or even Pedro Hernandez, but there is no last name it seems,

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.

There is writing there (3rd picture) but all I've been able to make out is G R ET (or I suppose with a bit of imagination it could be a degraded "FECIT") and I'm not really sure about any of it.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

There is writing there (3rd picture) but all I've been able to make out is G R ET (or I suppose with a bit of imagination it could be a degraded "FECIT") and I'm not really sure about any of it.

So ... looking better at the 3rd picture, it should read GARAETA, a Basque smith name mispelled by Palomares as Lagaretea.
"Este hecho se produce especialmente en el caso de los de raiz vasca, como Pedro Lagaretea por Pedro de Garaeta"
He is reported to have worked both in Bilbao and Toledo.


.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by fernando

There should be some written stuff in both sides ... as usual. Something like PEDRO DEL in one side and MONTE EN TOLEDO in the other.
But i am only guessing on the name, of course.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by werecow

True, but the condition isn't terrible, and "a bit rusty" is probably the only kind I can afford for this kind of sword. And apparently not even that (I was not all that close)! }|P

I agree, the condition isn't all that bad, it would have benefited from a reasonable amount of cleaning and ended up looking a lot better than when it left the auction house. The trick is to stop the active corrosion and remove accumulated dirt, while retaining as much of the existing patina as you can. A slow and conservative approach is far better than fast and aggressive, a lot of collectors use inappropriate methods and ruin pieces with overcleaning.