Ujung Gunung pamor and Combong

milandro · 13th February 2022, 01:13 PM

I came across one of these krisses and I was lucky to buy it for an affordable price. I do realize that this king of pamor often may result in a vertical split within the layers and that the Indonesian tradition is that this attributes magical powers to the blade (perhaps an early form of good marketing

).

Nevertheless I found it very charming and decided to acquire it. I Think this may have been a blade made in Madura, probably something arrived in the NL somewhere around the ’50.

David · 14th February 2022, 02:56 PM

I have seen keris that have slots or holes in the blade that were obviously pre-determined and intentional. I do understand that weld failures like what caused the slot in your blade are often accepted as “combong” by many collectors, but that does seem to be more a marketing ploy than anything else, attempting to turn a bad forging into something magickal and desirable.

milandro · 14th February 2022, 03:06 PM

I am aware of that and in fact I suggested the tongue in cheek “ old marketing” .

I have found a number of examples of modernly made krisses with similar forging features.

I understand that a western blacksmith would chuck the blade BUT an Indonesian empuh probably, beside not throwing away some work done, he probably thinks that the process is only partly in his hands and that he is rather the instruments of a superior being that through him creates the blade and maks it inhabited by a spirit and gives the blade its properties.

I am not trying to make this better than what it is (by the way I was very much thrilled to buy the blade) but when I visited the house (a temple really) of an old Indonesian man here in the NL with a couple of hundreds of krisses , a few were like this and he was telling me how important (to him) these things were.

David · 15th February 2022, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

I understand that a western blacksmith would chuck the blade BUT an Indonesian empuh probably, beside not throwing away some work done, he probably thinks that the process is only partly in his hands and that he is rather the instruments of a superior being that through him creates the blade and maks it inhabited by a spirit and gives the blade its properties.

I am not trying to make this better than what it is (by the way I was very much thrilled to buy the blade) but when I visited the house (a temple really) of an old Indonesian man here in the NL with a couple of hundreds of krisses , a few were like this and he was telling me how important (to him) these things were.

Milandro, i believe you are absolutely correct about that. My comments were not intended to disregard your keris and i have been informed by sources i trust that indeed "Acts of God" are what are important a Javanese Muslim in this case. So when a mistake like this happens it can be seen as a mystic circumstance. I am not sure how many actual empus make accidental mistakes like this in their forging technique, but we should remember that most keris are not made by empus.

jagabuwana · 16th February 2022, 01:59 AM

If you're interested to know more about this blade, I think it may be worth seeing if this is a Tuban style keris. It has a low gandhik and shallow blumbangan, which are features that might support this classification.

One way of assessing this is by looking straight down onto the flat face of the gonjo, like shown here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=23

This post will give you an idea of what to look for: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=17

Of course these cues are visual only. My understanding is that opinions about a keris' classification can change when it is in the hand of someone experienced.

milandro · 16th February 2022, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

If you're interested to know more about this blade, I think it may be worth seeing if this is a Tuban style keris. It has a low gandhik and shallow blumbangan, which are features that might support this classification.

Thanks! I certainly think it is a Tuban style Tanda Panah.

I am, very fond of this Keris. It certainly tickles the exoteric part of me.

I see that there are at least 3 different ways to be involved with these things (and many will be affected by one or more ) , one is the historical collector, the other is the technical collector and then the exoteric collector. Of course comninations and permutations are all possible.

Also geographic differences may influence practices an perceptions. I’ve read that many here favor wrapping in some sort of plastic and keep oiled krisses ( some also use gun oil).

I have had the fortune to visit a number of major collectors in the NL and none of them keeps krisses in plastic wrapped blades. This is probably because the practical technical part is kept way under the exoteric one. They firmly believe (only one of them is a originaly Indonesian person) they keris needs to breathe and that they need to greet the keris by touching (and some kissing ) the blade to their third eye location ( the thing would be impossible if wrapped in plastic).

Many different ways, I am not criticizing any (so if anyone feels this a critic please don’t because it is not my intention ), to each absolutely their own, There ae many ways and many opinions on everything.

13th February 2022, 01:13 PM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 474	Ujung Gunung pamor and Combong I came across one of these krisses and I was lucky to buy it for an affordable price. I do realize that this king of pamor often may result in a vertical split within the layers and that the Indonesian tradition is that this attributes magical powers to the blade (perhaps an early form of good marketing ). Nevertheless I found it very charming and decided to acquire it. I Think this may have been a blade made in Madura, probably something arrived in the NL somewhere around the ’50. Attached Images

14th February 2022, 03:06 PM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 474	I am aware of that and in fact I suggested the tongue in cheek “ old marketing” . I have found a number of examples of modernly made krisses with similar forging features. I understand that a western blacksmith would chuck the blade BUT an Indonesian empuh probably, beside not throwing away some work done, he probably thinks that the process is only partly in his hands and that he is rather the instruments of a superior being that through him creates the blade and maks it inhabited by a spirit and gives the blade its properties. I am not trying to make this better than what it is (by the way I was very much thrilled to buy the blade) but when I visited the house (a temple really) of an old Indonesian man here in the NL with a couple of hundreds of krisses , a few were like this and he was telling me how important (to him) these things were. Attached Images Last edited by milandro; 14th February 2022 at 03:13 PM. Reason: pictures

14th February 2022, 02:56 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I have seen keris that have slots or holes in the blade that were obviously pre-determined and intentional. I do understand that weld failures like what caused the slot in your blade are often accepted as “combong” by many collectors, but that does seem to be more a marketing ploy than anything else, attempting to turn a bad forging into something magickal and desirable.

16th February 2022, 01:59 AM	#5
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	If you're interested to know more about this blade, I think it may be worth seeing if this is a Tuban style keris. It has a low gandhik and shallow blumbangan, which are features that might support this classification. One way of assessing this is by looking straight down onto the flat face of the gonjo, like shown here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=23 This post will give you an idea of what to look for: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=17 Of course these cues are visual only. My understanding is that opinions about a keris' classification can change when it is in the hand of someone experienced.