Russian hunting knives of the 16th-18th and 19th centuries

[Mercenary]

Just pics

16-18th

[Mercenary]

18th

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

18th

Thank you! Very interesting

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Thank you! Very interesting

Tula (city). Technique similar to this:

[ariel]

This is a fragment of a long and detailed article by Novosyolov in the Russian journal " Studies of historical weapons #11. Till recently, Russian literature relied on 3 varieties of old Russian knives: boot knife, belt knife and saadak knife. Novosyolov pinpoints their European and Islamic ( Turkish specifically) motives and suggests that the classification in question was a myth created by one Yakovlev and perpetuated from there on.

Since I am one of the very few on this Forum who knows Russian language, the rest of Forumites will remain in the dark about the veracity of Novosyolov's analysis and conclusions. But just to copy pictures of various knives and figures from the article is not enough: a full translation of the text is needed for anyone with an interest in the field.

Just a general comment: since this is not my area of even minimal interest, I am not qualified to critique or even spend any time going deep into the subject. But some people here may want to know more about that topic.

Overall, knives are IMHO the toughest variety of blades weapons to attribute. Swords were valued fighting implements, knives were by and large utilitarian objects discarded easily. There is a disappointing scarcity of old Russian knives in existence and that prevents any statistically-based classification.
Suffice it to say that the long and narrow-bladed inward curving dagger widely believed by the Russian collectors and arms historians to be the classic example of the so-called saadak knife exists as a solitary (!) example.



Also, taking into account that all Russian weapons have their origins either in Turkic or European traditions, it is difficult to imagine that knives,-the short-bladed ones,- are any different. Many societies preserved their " traditional" weapons: Japan, Turkey, Iran, India, Balkans etc. and contunued to produce them until recently and often even now. But the examples discussed in Novosyolov's paper ( XIV-XVII centuries ) ceased to remain in use 400 years ago.... There are more 2000-3000 years old Roman and Greek swords and knives in the museums than their Russian counterparts dating to the above time period.

Tough topic to study.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by ariel

since this is not my area of even minimal interest, I am not qualified to critique or even spend any time going deep into the subject.

Then just read the article again. The pictures show exactly Russian knives. This is not reasonable without knowing the subject, to argue with the archives of the Armory Chamber of the Moscow Kremlin and the curator of its collection.

Originally Posted by ariel

There is a disappointing scarcity of old Russian knives in existence and that prevents any statistically-based classification.

That is why I posted these pictures. Just look and learn something more.

Originally Posted by ariel

Also, taking into account that all Russian weapons have their origins either in Turkic or European traditions, it is difficult to imagine that knives,-the short-bladed ones,- are any different.

You know all sabers have their origins in Turkic traditions? And what?