Not Another Zulu Spear on eBay

katana · 30th January 2008, 02:11 PM

Here we go again.....another Zulu spear...which CLEARLY isn't. I even e-mailed the seller to warn him that this wasn't Zulu and that he could have 'repocussions' from the buyer, when they discover that the "GOOD genuine early antique african zulu spear" is not.
No reply......

This problem is becoming worse, nice African items are becoming 'over-priced' when they are described as Zulu and people are being 'ripped off'. I appreciate 'buyer beware', but ...........

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=008

Bill M · 30th January 2008, 03:04 PM

Well, David. If not a Zulu or even a ZLO, what is it? Looks some kind of African. New or old? Made for "people who travel for fun," or hunting?

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2008, 04:58 PM

Sudanese, of Mahdist form, although whether it is actually of the period is unclear.
The Ansar were supposed to carry three spears into battle,two of them were to throw at the enemy before charging and these were shorter. These shorter spears had a variety of points with points or barbs, often being combined. Then the warrior would charge with the long spear, which was pointed, though not barbed.

The descriptions posted with ebay items are often astounding, and we can only hope that the language barrier might account for the rambling, incongruent and often ridiculous wordings. I have seen some that term the weapon being sold with the names of a number of completely different weapons. Some of the writing reads like imitation Victorian prose, or hyperbole laden adventure stories for young boys.
It would seem that here, with the daily news on these auction listings, there is an ever growing awareness of the monumental importance of caveat emptor!

There are still good buys out there, and hopefully the knowledge shared here will help shoppers in making good choices and hopefully reasonable bargains. Perhaps this buyer knew this was Sudanese, and these are I think somewhat desirable, at least would look great with a grouping of kaskara, shield etc.

Best regards,
Jim

Freddy · 30th January 2008, 05:19 PM

This kind of spearhead was also found among the Zande and Mangbetu living in Congo, near the border with Sudan.

The spears with the long pointed iron end are probably Mangbetu.

It could well be that these travelled and were used in the Mahdist uprising.

katana · 30th January 2008, 07:54 PM

Thank you all for your replies

I have a number of these spears and spearheads and as mentioned, the Sudan, Zande or Mangbetu are likely sources.

The annoying thing for me is that putting 'Zulu' in a listing artificially increases the price.......it means that an African piece that is worth say £50 (or thereabouts) ends up to be £100 + because of the inaccurate zulu tag. The only 'winner' is the seller.....

Also, this type of spearhead would NEVER be used as a short stabbing spear, the barbs would never allow 'easy removal' from the victim. These are throwing spears, designed to be difficult to remove to cause the opposing warrior severe problems even if the damage is not fatal.

Yet this 'zulu' spear is only 29" long, you can see by the listing photos that it has been cut. (originally to make it easier to pack (if this was a conflict 'bring back') or more sinisterly, cut by the seller to give the impression that this is a stabbing spear)

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 30th January 2008, 09:38 PM

Sad indeed.

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2008, 05:11 AM

[QUOTE=Freddy]This kind of spearhead was also found among the Zande and Mangbetu living in Congo, near the border with Sudan.

The spears with the long pointed iron end are probably Mangbetu.

It could well be that these travelled and were used in the Mahdist uprising.
{Quote}

Well said Freddy. In the words of a very respected authority on arms, weapons have no geographic boundaries. Examples of these are probably more recognizable as Sudanese because they often appear in groupings from the Mahdist period.

I agree with you David, it does seem that such misleading attributions indeed present problems in these descriptions, and your notes on the reasons why these would not be used as short stabbing spears right on target!
I think a lot of these guys should consider writing books.....fiction!

All best regards,
Jim

Lew · 31st January 2008, 05:30 AM

Jim

You did not read the fine print on the shaft of the spear? It reads if found please return to Shaka.

Lew

kronckew · 31st January 2008, 10:29 AM

there is a little sign on the opposite side that says

CAUTION may contain nuts.

Bill M · 31st January 2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

there is a little sign on the opposite side that says

CAUTION may contain nuts.

And "Point this end towards enemy."

kronckew · 31st January 2008, 01:43 PM

we are getting into shaky legal ground here, time for the generic disclaimer

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2008, 06:28 AM

LOL!!!

OK Lew! Ya got me !
Thanks guys, I needed that!

30th January 2008, 02:11 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Not Another Zulu Spear on eBay Here we go again.....another Zulu spear...which CLEARLY isn't. I even e-mailed the seller to warn him that this wasn't Zulu and that he could have 'repocussions' from the buyer, when they discover that the "GOOD genuine early antique african zulu spear" is not. No reply...... This problem is becoming worse, nice African items are becoming 'over-priced' when they are described as Zulu and people are being 'ripped off'. I appreciate 'buyer beware', but ........... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=008

30th January 2008, 03:04 PM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Well, David. If not a Zulu or even a ZLO, what is it? Looks some kind of African. New or old? Made for "people who travel for fun," or hunting? Last edited by Bill Marsh; 31st January 2008 at 01:16 PM. Reason: spellnig, er seplling, i mean sepelling..

30th January 2008, 04:58 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Sudanese, of Mahdist form, although whether it is actually of the period is unclear. The Ansar were supposed to carry three spears into battle,two of them were to throw at the enemy before charging and these were shorter. These shorter spears had a variety of points with points or barbs, often being combined. Then the warrior would charge with the long spear, which was pointed, though not barbed. The descriptions posted with ebay items are often astounding, and we can only hope that the language barrier might account for the rambling, incongruent and often ridiculous wordings. I have seen some that term the weapon being sold with the names of a number of completely different weapons. Some of the writing reads like imitation Victorian prose, or hyperbole laden adventure stories for young boys. It would seem that here, with the daily news on these auction listings, there is an ever growing awareness of the monumental importance of caveat emptor! There are still good buys out there, and hopefully the knowledge shared here will help shoppers in making good choices and hopefully reasonable bargains. Perhaps this buyer knew this was Sudanese, and these are I think somewhat desirable, at least would look great with a grouping of kaskara, shield etc. Best regards, Jim

30th January 2008, 05:19 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	This kind of spearhead was also found among the Zande and Mangbetu living in Congo, near the border with Sudan. The spears with the long pointed iron end are probably Mangbetu. It could well be that these travelled and were used in the Mahdist uprising.

30th January 2008, 07:54 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thank you all for your replies I have a number of these spears and spearheads and as mentioned, the Sudan, Zande or Mangbetu are likely sources. The annoying thing for me is that putting 'Zulu' in a listing artificially increases the price.......it means that an African piece that is worth say £50 (or thereabouts) ends up to be £100 + because of the inaccurate zulu tag. The only 'winner' is the seller..... Also, this type of spearhead would NEVER be used as a short stabbing spear, the barbs would never allow 'easy removal' from the victim. These are throwing spears, designed to be difficult to remove to cause the opposing warrior severe problems even if the damage is not fatal. Yet this 'zulu' spear is only 29" long, you can see by the listing photos that it has been cut. (originally to make it easier to pack (if this was a conflict 'bring back') or more sinisterly, cut by the seller to give the impression that this is a stabbing spear) Regards David

30th January 2008, 09:38 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Sad indeed.

31st January 2008, 05:11 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	[QUOTE=Freddy]This kind of spearhead was also found among the Zande and Mangbetu living in Congo, near the border with Sudan. The spears with the long pointed iron end are probably Mangbetu. It could well be that these travelled and were used in the Mahdist uprising. {Quote} Well said Freddy. In the words of a very respected authority on arms, weapons have no geographic boundaries. Examples of these are probably more recognizable as Sudanese because they often appear in groupings from the Mahdist period. I agree with you David, it does seem that such misleading attributions indeed present problems in these descriptions, and your notes on the reasons why these would not be used as short stabbing spears right on target! I think a lot of these guys should consider writing books.....fiction! All best regards, Jim

31st January 2008, 05:30 AM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Jim You did not read the fine print on the shaft of the spear? It reads if found please return to Shaka. Lew

31st January 2008, 10:29 AM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	there is a little sign on the opposite side that says CAUTION may contain nuts.

1st February 2008, 06:28 AM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	LOL!!! OK Lew! Ya got me ! Thanks guys, I needed that!