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24th February 2025, 09:33 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Magnate (nobleman) saber from Croatia
Magnatska sablja ili plemićka sablja, or magnate (nobleman) saber, from Croatia with provenance of use by croatian nobleman, as usualy with those sabers or swords, blade is trophy and much older than mounting, in this case i would say a military karabela? Blade, maybe italian, but not sure.
I have a yatagan with blade that is cut down from old sword and it has a similar markings. Blade is very good quality, (pictures are very bad quality, but they are what they are ��) it has three grooves, sharp yalman, and damage marks from another blade, axe, or a mace?. I would say that blade is 17 century. Mounting is silver with nice patina, nice preserved velvet, one side is ornamented with beautiful baroque engrawings and set with semi precious stones, other side is made like snake scales pattern, on the chape there is a snake holding a globe in its mouth. Tang is peened into the hilt, with some resin or filler inside. I would put mountings on the second half of 18 or end of 18 century, maybe begining of 19 century. Any thoughts are welcome. Last edited by serdar; 24th February 2025 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Writing mistakes. |
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24th February 2025, 09:35 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Photos
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24th February 2025, 10:26 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Photos
Photos
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24th February 2025, 10:28 PM
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#4 |
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25th February 2025, 08:57 PM
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#5 |
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 752
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Wow, that’s a beautiful sword Serdar! Great blade and amazing effect with the stones like drops of blood or glinting snake eyes. The scaling effect on the back of the scabbard and the little snake at the chafe are interesting details. It looks more authentic and older than the magnate sabres I’ve seen from 19thC although surprising the velvet is so well preserved. In the Napoleonic era animal designs were popular in so called Empire style (e.g. chairs and tables with feet shaped like lion paws, griffin carvings), but this sword seems older than that and the snake theme has some other meaning than just a fashionable style.
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25th February 2025, 08:59 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 813
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Zdravo Serdar / Hello Serdar,
a very interesting sword indeed. Can you perhaps show better pictures of the decoration or inscriptions on the blade ? The circular connected ones remind me of Ottoman cold weapons but the letters do look cyrillic ( which I tried to decipher...). Maybe I am mistaken on the latter but that is the reason why I would like to see better or closer ones.... Last edited by gp; 25th February 2025 at 09:30 PM. |
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25th February 2025, 11:45 PM
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#7 | |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Hy Victrix, thank you! It sure is a very nice sword, i purchased it with thoughts of selling it, but i cant, it is magnificent in person. I have another “magnate saber”, i will post it when i go to my house, it is allso very nice with old blade. Velvet is indeed very well preserved, but it has been repaired, it doesent show on photos, mostly from upper side. About snake, hmm i dont realy know, i had a shamshir in silver, whole scabbard was decorated like dragon scales, but blade was in a bad condition so i sold it. Bigest mistery to me is a damage on the blade, to me it looks like some one fired a laser (yea i know it is imposible  ) ) or a bullet and it scraped the blade, it needs to be seen in person to understand why i think that way.It wasnt broken and then repaired, or something like that, but literary it looks like someone fired a projectile or (beam ) ) and scraped a blade. )It is a mistery.
Last edited by serdar; 26th February 2025 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Small keys, big fingers, second language :) |
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26th February 2025, 12:01 AM
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#8 | |
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Posts: 85
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Quote:
I will take a closer photo, but it says ANAN and twisted (reversed) NANA, i dont know what it means, i saw similar twisted (reversed) writings between sickle marks, circles, stars etc. On italian blades 16/17 century. Anything else i realy dont know. I will post you a closer pictures, allso from other saber, but im very sure it is not cirilic. It is very interesting that you mentioned citilic text, it is very rare on blades, i mean original production text on cirilic, not later aded on trophy text. Some month ago, i was offered for purchase with karabela that had a cirilic text writen in old slavic, church slavic, crkveni slavenski language, but i skiped it becouse price was a ludacris if that is a word?, price was insane, let me refrase that, price was extremly insane, and sword wasnt up to it, but was nice museum piece, and that was the only one that i saw in person with cirilic text, other i saw on photo. Whit trophy ones im very careful, there is always posibility of forged text, one guy that i know, purchased a ottoman pistol that is engraved with handwriten cirilic text which says it was taken in a famous battle in balkan, and it doesent match pieces from period from that state in balkan, to be precise it doesent match the way that it is engraved and the style of letters, it stands in the croud and also who ever engraved it it misspeled a place name )
Last edited by serdar; 26th February 2025 at 12:10 AM. Reason: -||- |
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26th February 2025, 07:08 PM
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 813
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Indeed one has to be careful with decoration and text on blades of swords of the Balkans, Greek Isles and Ottoman Empire.
Like the band Bajaga sang "Nije votka rakija," vodka is not rakija There are a lot of forgeries, next to marriages also later additions on old blades...some real some made just to drive up prices... I noticed lately some yataghans with "fancy" text in Arabic lettering but also poor to bad quality or perhaps fantasy ones; it could be done by a simple man from the country side but also poor / bad immitation or as said before forgeries.... Not only swords but also bichaqs.... So I prefer to follow books like : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Dubrovnik http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=10 or websites like http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=elgood&page=2 but stay away from doubtfull or to expensive swords and daggers...just to be safe  Vozi Misko...sorry Vozi Serdar ☺☼☺ FYI : Vozi means "drive" and "Vozi Misko" is a kind inside joke in the former Yugoslavia with no offence intended but brings a smile to the face of ex Yu guys |
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26th February 2025, 08:28 PM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 752
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Not too dissimilar blade in the book “Ubojite Ostrice” (2003) by Mario Kovac.
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6th March 2025, 11:11 PM
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#11 | |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Quote:
There are forgeries indeed, but they are easily recognized, especialy on yataghans. I seen a very good forgeries of hussar swords and karabela swords, mostly originating from hungary and some from poland, but allso, they are easily spoted if you take sword in hands. I stick to one rule, never buyng a sword especialy expensive one online or if i cant hold it in my hands first. Uvijek rakija ispred votke! Mada moj izbor je armanjak. Allways raki over vodka, but generaly my choice is armagnac. 😃👍🏻 |
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6th March 2025, 11:14 PM
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#12 | |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Indeed similar, i was wrong, just looked better and it indeed says RNRN and oposite, and not ANAN. Thank you! 😃 Il post pictures of my second magnate saber, it has very nice filigre work, and especialy on the first plate head of a cherub maybe? |
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6th March 2025, 11:17 PM
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Second magnate saber
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6th March 2025, 11:18 PM
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 85
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Linear Mode
