How unique are the edged weapons of Afghanistan in comparison to their neighbors?

[Sakalord364]

I believe I heard on this forum once that Afghan edged weapons are all derivative, and are merely copies of designs from neighboring countries and peoples, thus implying Afghanistan does not have a unique edged weapons tradition of its own separate from its neighbors. Is this a commonly held opinion in the collecting community?

[Turkoman.khan]

Originally Posted by Sakalord364

I believe I heard on this forum once that Afghan edged weapons are all derivative, and are merely copies of designs from neighboring countries and peoples, thus implying Afghanistan does not have a unique edged weapons tradition of its own separate from its neighbors. Is this a commonly held opinion in the collecting community?

Hi Sakalord

Do you have the book "Edged Weapons of Afghanistan"?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25281

I think in this book you will see examples typical for Afghanistan.

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting question, and as has been noted, the fantastic book by Dmitry is a must for anyone interested in these distinctive weapons.

If most were asked to note a distinctive weapon that represented Afghanistan, most would respond first of all.....the KHYBER KNIFE.
While these have been commonly called that, they have also been called a silliwar yataghan....the term silliwar apparently a local term used (the yataghan simply added by collectors and writers for effect).

Actually these Khyber knives are simply evolved from the Persian dagger called the PESH KABZ according to some sources. Typically these kinds of assertions bring about considerable consternation, which are part of what we affectionately call here....the 'name game' This refers to constant efforts to classify certain forms which are actually variants of one form into different categories of individual weapons in certain ethnographic contexts,

The KARUD which is actually a large version of the pesh kabz and the term a corruption of the Persian term 'dari kard'. The kard is of course another characteristic Persian knife.

The pesh kabz typically has a straight blade, while it has generally been held that the Indian version has a curved blade.

Then comes the CHOORA (CHURRA) which is simply a term denoting the pesh kabz, which somehow ended up being applied to a smaller version of the these common in Khyber regions.

Basically these 'forms' are all variations of Persian weapons, with the terms we know them by applied by anxious collectors in their endless endeavors to classify and categorize.

What distinguishes the Afghan versions seems to be primarily the blade spine which strengthens for thrusts through heavy clothing etc.

The familiar Khyber knife has thereby been regarded as the quintessential Afghan edged weapon, and its term derived from British Hobson-Jobson (military slang). This was further popularized in the writings of Kipling.

The sword known as the paluoar is actually a more elaborate version of the Indian tulwar, which seems to have derived from these kinds of hilts in Persian and Ottoman swords of 16th c. These distinctive swords are always recognized as AFGHAN but with Egerton (1885) they were classified as tulwars. In those times Afghanistan was largely independent principalities, and emirates rather than a cohesive nation.
In British perspective in the Raj, these regions were Northwest India.

The shamshir, distinctively Persian of course, was prevalent in Afghanistan as well as throughout the Dar as Islam.

The shashka, the characteristic Caucasian saber, these also had certain presence in Afghanistan, which may have come into this sphere through Persian and Russian infusions of influence.

The curious appearance of the Nepalese kukri probably came in though the British of course and via Gurkha influences.

Other weapons such as the lohar have likely influence from India, which in turn came from Chinese dagger axes.

Here one of the common aspects of discussion on ethnographic weapons concerns the development of weapon forms, their history, and evolution. Obviously each form had to begin somewhere, but just how, where, when.....are questions not easily answered.

It seems Persian influence was the most prevalent through these regions and the Indian subcontinent as well as much further.

Just wanted to share my thoughts on an interesting query.

[Sakalord364]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Interesting question, and as has been noted, the fantastic book by Dmitry is a must for anyone interested in these distinctive weapons.

If most were asked to note a distinctive weapon that represented Afghanistan, most would respond first of all.....the KHYBER KNIFE.
While these have been commonly called that, they have also been called a silliwar yataghan....the term silliwar apparently a local term used (the yataghan simply added by collectors and writers for effect).

Actually these Khyber knives are simply evolved from the Persian dagger called the PESH KABZ according to some sources. Typically these kinds of assertions bring about considerable consternation, which are part of what we affectionately call here....the 'name game' This refers to constant efforts to classify certain forms which are actually variants of one form into different categories of individual weapons in certain ethnographic contexts,

The KARUD which is actually a large version of the pesh kabz and the term a corruption of the Persian term 'dari kard'. The kard is of course another characteristic Persian knife.

The pesh kabz typically has a straight blade, while it has generally been held that the Indian version has a curved blade.

Then comes the CHOORA (CHURRA) which is simply a term denoting the pesh kabz, which somehow ended up being applied to a smaller version of the these common in Khyber regions.

Basically these 'forms' are all variations of Persian weapons, with the terms we know them by applied by anxious collectors in their endless endeavors to classify and categorize.

What distinguishes the Afghan versions seems to be primarily the blade spine which strengthens for thrusts through heavy clothing etc.

The familiar Khyber knife has thereby been regarded as the quintessential Afghan edged weapon, and its term derived from British Hobson-Jobson (military slang). This was further popularized in the writings of Kipling.

The sword known as the paluoar is actually a more elaborate version of the Indian tulwar, which seems to have derived from these kinds of hilts in Persian and Ottoman swords of 16th c. These distinctive swords are always recognized as AFGHAN but with Egerton (1885) they were classified as tulwars. In those times Afghanistan was largely independent principalities, and emirates rather than a cohesive nation.
In British perspective in the Raj, these regions were Northwest India.

The shamshir, distinctively Persian of course, was prevalent in Afghanistan as well as throughout the Dar as Islam.

The shashka, the characteristic Caucasian saber, these also had certain presence in Afghanistan, which may have come into this sphere through Persian and Russian infusions of influence.

The curious appearance of the Nepalese kukri probably came in though the British of course and via Gurkha influences.

Other weapons such as the lohar have likely influence from India, which in turn came from Chinese dagger axes.

Here one of the common aspects of discussion on ethnographic weapons concerns the development of weapon forms, their history, and evolution. Obviously each form had to begin somewhere, but just how, where, when.....are questions not easily answered.

It seems Persian influence was the most prevalent through these regions and the Indian subcontinent as well as much further.

Just wanted to share my thoughts on an interesting query.

Afghanistan being small compared to Iran and India, it’s not surprising that foreign influence found its way into Afghan edged weapons, but I still wonder however if the pulwar hilt merely survived in Afghanistan due to its geographic isolation, or if the pulwar hilt was created in Afghan lands. It is quite common in Afghanistan but very rare in India, at least photographically speaking

[Sakalord364]

Originally Posted by Sakalord364

Afghanistan being small compared to Iran and India, it’s not surprising that foreign influence found its way into Afghan edged weapons, but I still wonder however if the pulwar hilt merely survived in Afghanistan due to its geographic isolation, or if the pulwar hilt was created in Afghan lands. It is quite common in Afghanistan but very rare in India, at least photographically speaking

So I suppose that in comparing Afghans with, say, Scottish Highlanders we can see possibly some similarities in the origin of the weapons they had:

Highlander:

Basket hilted broadsword (originated outside Scotland)
Highland Dirk (indigenous Design)

Afghan:

Pulwar (possibly originated outside Afghanistan)
Khyber Knife (indigenous Design)

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Sakalord364

So I suppose that in comparing Afghans with, say, Scottish Highlanders we can see possibly some similarities in the origin of the weapons they had:

Highlander:

Basket hilted broadsword (originated outside Scotland)
Highland Dirk (indigenous Design)

Afghan:

Pulwar (possibly originated outside Afghanistan)
Khyber Knife (indigenous Design)

I like this line of thinking! and this is exactly the kind of rationale that is so important and fascinating in studying the evolution of edged weapon forms.
The basket hilt itself evolved from these type hilts in the groups of swords often referred to as 'Sinclair sabers' and have a traditional connection to Scottish mercenaries on campaigns in Norway in 1612. These type swords were actually the 'dusagge' which were well known across Central Europe in these times and into the next century.

Actually the 'basket hilt' form was well known in England in the early 16th century . There were examples found on the wreck of the Mary Rose in England (1545) and that of the Sea Venture in 1609 off Bermuda.

The Scots simply adopted the hilt form and embellished with their own styling and elements in the 17th century, which in turn evolved into the distinct form we know as the Highland basket hilt. In these times these were typically referred to as 'Irish' hilts with that term collectively used for Scots and Irish.

The Highland Dirk, again evolved from the 'bollock dagger' in use from Scandinavia and British Isles 13th-18th centuries, also known as 'kidney dagger' and 'dudgeon dagger' by 16th-17th c.
Again by the 18th century these became styled into the Highland dirk, using traditional styling elements, and often used broken repurposed blades from the swords as well of course as later using specifically made ones.

It was during Victorian times and their fascination with Scottish tradition and character that many of the sometimes fanciful notions became popular.

Here can be seen how forms and styling from far broader scope can often evolve locally into distinct versions that become recognizable and peculiar to certain regions and countries.

In Afghanistan, the paluoar as previously noted was loosely based in its hilt form on earlier Persian and Ottoman hilt styles probably some time in the early 17th century or later. There were always highly symbolic and iconic elements in the styling in these Islamic hilts, and these often were brought forward recalling much earlier styles. The downturned quillons with often highly stylized 'dragons' are such a key element. The cupped pommel also has such significance.
As these became popularized in form in Afghanistan regions (as mentioned not known as a single country but singular emirates and principalities not recognized as 'Afghanistan' until 1920s). Still tribal groupings had no such boundaries and the style remained popular well into 19th c.

So again the 'form' originated in a broader scope in the Islamic sphere which cannot be specified geographically, but evolved stylistically into the swords we know as paluoar.

The 'Khyber knife' as noted evolved locally into the very large versions of the pesh kabz, the Persian dagger whose variations are often called by different names typically classified by collectors in modern times. The British often referred to many of these weapons collectively as 'Khyber knives' in the mid 19th c. but the term became more specifically applied to these large types which most closely resemble the large dagger known as 'karud' . This term is corrupted from the Persian 'dari kard' (the kard is a Persian dagger).

So again, forms from broader spectrum of weapon styling which became localized through elements and character in hilt design. This is of course typical in sword forms as blades were a widely traded commodity and were characteristically mounted in preferred local hilt forms.

It is difficult to declare most edged weapon hilt forms indigenous in my opinion due to these typical influences from many external sources in most cases. However in their character these hilt forms often became popularized as well as often the weapon form overall, in certain national character.

Naturally these observations are simply my own opinions from the time I have studied and collected these forms, and as always I welcome those of others. We are ALWAYS learning and especially in sharing information here.

Again, I very much like your approach to studying these weapon forms and hope my observations might be useful.

Best regards
Jim