French (?) Schepeler stag horn navaja

[Sajen]

Dear members,

I came across this stag horn navaja, whose blade is marked Schepeler. It was very rusted and I've cleaned it recently, very well made blade and razor sharp.
I am correct that this navaja is French? Or Belgian maybe? Someone familiar with the "Schepeler" mark? Age guess?
Closed 16,5 cm, opened 29,4 cm.

When the mods think it belongs in the European section, please feel free to move it over there.

[Ian]

Hi Detlef,


Your post can live here for a while and if you don't get a response I'll move it over to the Euro forum. Nice horn scales.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Your post can live here for a while and if you don't get a response I'll move it over to the Euro forum. Nice horn scales.

Thank you Ian!

[Sajen]

Over 100 views and no comment? Come on guys!

[Bob A]

OK, while I have no info regarding origin of this knife, I was impressed by the fact that the shape of the blade, and indeed the knife as a whole, was dictated by the shape of the antler.

It's a fine thing, to see this respect for one's materials, and its artistic expression.

Very attractive knife.

[gp]

it is a very beautiful knife. The antler part is often seen in the hunting world ( excellent to skin little game like rabbits and such),
hunting world specially in the German , Austrian, Swiss and North Italian ( Tirol) regions...
Next the name Schepeler originates from Thüringen Germany.
Hence it might be closer to home as one might think...

But...the shape of the blade does reminds me again more of Latin influances; Italian or Spanish...

Both blade and grip seem to look of outstanding quality and do have some age; could be 50 but also 100 years

Those are my thoughts but am sorry not to be of better support, except for the fact that you do have a very very nice knife!

[Ian]

Detlef, I think you may get more responses from the Euro Forum, so will send it over there now. Ian.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Bob A

OK, while I have no info regarding origin of this knife, I was impressed by the fact that the shape of the blade, and indeed the knife as a whole, was dictated by the shape of the antler.

It's a fine thing, to see this respect for one's materials, and its artistic expression.

Very attractive knife.

Thank you Bob! The blade shape is a typical form for navaya blades so a stag horn is a good match indeed.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by gp

it is a very beautiful knife. The antler part is often seen in the hunting world ( excellent to skin little game like rabbits and such),
hunting world specially in the German , Austrian, Swiss and North Italian ( Tirol) regions...
Next the name Schepeler originates from Thüringen Germany.
Hence it might be closer to home as one might think...

But...the shape of the blade does reminds me again more of Latin influances; Italian or Spanish...

Both blade and grip seem to look of outstanding quality and do have some age; could be 50 but also 100 years

Those are my thoughts but am sorry not to be of better support, except for the fact that you do have a very very nice knife!

Thank you Gunar! When it's French it will be around 100 years old, I've read somewhere that this lock system gets forbidden very early in the end of the 19th to the early 20th century, I don't know the exact date. I don't know about the law in other countries in Europe. I hope that someone knows the term "Schepeler".

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Detlef, I think you may get more responses from the Euro Forum, so will send it over there now. Ian.

Thanks Ian!

[RobT]

Sajen,

The teat lock, ring pull, lack of a bolster, and the blade shape all argue for France. In France, this style of knife is known as a palm knife because the back spring is said to resemble a palm frond. It as also known by its Spanish name, navaja. The lock on the Spanish version tends to be rectangular rather than a round pin. Because the typical French version of this knife style doesn’t have a bolster, a ring pull is used as a blade release. The Spanish navaja of this type usually has a metal bolster so a metal lever can be used to release the blade. In France, this blade shape is called yataghan. In the US I have heard it called a Turkish clip. I think that the “reinforced tip” on your knife is a bit unusual. I only have one such in my collection.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by RobT

The teat lock, ring pull, lack of a bolster, and the blade shape all argue for France. In France, this style of knife is known as a palm knife because the back spring is said to resemble a palm frond. It as also known by its Spanish name, navaja. The lock on the Spanish version tends to be rectangular rather than a round pin. Because the typical French version of this knife style doesn’t have a bolster, a ring pull is used as a blade release. The Spanish navaja of this type usually has a metal bolster so a metal lever can be used to release the blade. In France, this blade shape is called yataghan. In the US I have heard it called a Turkish clip. I think that the “reinforced tip” on your knife is a bit unusual. I only have one such in my collection.

Hello Rob,

Thank you very much for your detailed comment! Do you know when the lock system got forbidden in France? Could the reinforced tip be a sign that the knife is a hunting knife? I think it's ideal for skinning.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Chris Evans]

Hi Detlef,

I think that RobT pretty much nailed it!

I searched through my reference books and the best that I could find was in one of Abel Domenech’s Spanish language book on folding knives, in which he links this type to France and classifies it as a hunting knife with lock `a palme’ and type `cornillon’, made towards the end of the 19th century.

I tried searching for the name Schepeler without success, but taking a cue from the above mentioned book, it is likely that it was made by a small output cutler, somewhere in France, as many were, but then it could equally have seen the light of day somewhere else. I hasten to add that the brand may not be of the maker but that of a retailer or importer who obtained the knife from an unknown maker and sold it under his own name, a very common practice in the industry.

Just for the fun of it, I put the question to Chat GPT and it linked the name to Solingen, without any further elaboration.

Cheers
Chris

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

I think that RobT pretty much nailed it!

I searched through my reference books and the best that I could find was in one of Abel Domenech’s Spanish language book on folding knives, in which he links this type to France and classifies it as a hunting knife with lock `a palme’ and type `cornillon’, made towards the end of the 19th century.

I tried searching for the name Schepeler without success, but taking a cue from the above mentioned book, it is likely that it was made by a small output cutler, somewhere in France, as many were, but then it could equally have seen the light of day somewhere else. I hasten to add that the brand may not be of the maker but that of a retailer or importer who obtained the knife from an unknown maker and sold it under his own name, a very common practice in the industry.

Just for the fun of it, I put the question to Chat GPT and it linked the name to Solingen, without any further elaboration.

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for your educated comment! So it will be French and end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century.
I've found a somewhat similar knife in "Navaja Antigua", also of French origin from Thiers. Described as Montera type. It's razor sharp and also it has some play to the side, the best French navaja I ever owned.

Best regards,
Detlef

[RobT]

Detlef,

I don’t know if this type of lock is illegal to make, sell, and own in France (or in Spain for that matter) but I would bet that it is illegal to carry unless you are hunting or camping. When the carry restrictions came into effect I can’t say but this type of palm knife (with a cow horn hilt and without the “reinforced” tip) was the first French WWI trench knife and the knife maker Pierre Tarry Levigne (who went out of business in the 1930s) was importing Italian switch blades with teat locks at the end.
The reinforced tip may have started out as a hunting/skinning feature but I think it became an affectation on non hunting knives. The blade on my example is only 3” (about 7.6cm) which is on the small side for a hunting/skinning knife.
By the way, that's a darn good looking knife you have there.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by RobT

Detlef,

I don’t know if this type of lock is illegal to make, sell, and own in France (or in Spain for that matter) <snip>

Hi RobT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation

Cheers
Chris

[RobT]

Chris Evans,

I quickly read through the legal restrictions for France, Italy, and Spain on the link you posted.
It would appear that France has no restrictions on manufacture, sale, and ownership, Carry is restricted though.
If I understand what I read about Italy, buying and owning switchblades and double edged knives is restricted which is curious as there are a lot of currently made Italian switchblades now being sold in Pennsylvania because that state recently dropped restrictions (for adults) to buy such knives.
As with France and Italy, Spain prohibits weapon knife carry. In addition, knives classified as “prohibited weapons” (switchblades, sword canes, daggers, double edged and pointed tip knives over 11cm [4.3”]) can’t be made, sold or bought. The prohibited weapons restriction must make it rough for collectors of antique navajas,
As with state by state knife restrictions in the US, it would appear that European regulations are all over the map. I wonder if any of the laws in Europe are based on hard statistical evidence rather than a whimsical “you can’t have that because I don’t like it and I’m the mommy that’s why”. As for the US, I would be willing to bet the ranch that the welter of conflicting state laws are based on nothing more than nanny state caprice. “You don’t want that kid, you’ll put your eye out”. As a knife and sword collector of many years, I can say without a doubt that, in the highly unlikely event I found it necessary to commit premeditated murder with an edged weapon, I would choose something from my kitchen drawer, not my collection and that choice would be based on very practical reasons.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Chris Evans]

Hi RobT,

I can smell AI in the Wikipedia article!

Check out this Spanish website to see a sampling of what is currently available for sale.

Cheers
Chris

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by RobT

I don’t know if this type of lock is illegal to make, sell, and own in France (or in Spain for that matter) but I would bet that it is illegal to carry unless you are hunting or camping. When the carry restrictions came into effect I can’t say but this type of palm knife (with a cow horn hilt and without the “reinforced” tip) was the first French WWI trench knife and the knife maker Pierre Tarry Levigne (who went out of business in the 1930s) was importing Italian switch blades with teat locks at the end.
The reinforced tip may have started out as a hunting/skinning feature but I think it became an affectation on non hunting knives. The blade on my example is only 3” (about 7.6cm) which is on the small side for a hunting/skinning knife.
By the way, that's a darn good looking knife you have there.

Hello Rob,

I think I confused something about the ban, I'm unsure.
In any case, thank you very much for your informative contribution and the compliment on my knife.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by RobT

Chris Evans,

I quickly read through the legal restrictions for France, Italy, and Spain on the link you posted.
It would appear that France has no restrictions on manufacture, sale, and ownership, Carry is restricted though.
If I understand what I read about Italy, buying and owning switchblades and double edged knives is restricted which is curious as there are a lot of currently made Italian switchblades now being sold in Pennsylvania because that state recently dropped restrictions (for adults) to buy such knives.
As with France and Italy, Spain prohibits weapon knife carry. In addition, knives classified as “prohibited weapons” (switchblades, sword canes, daggers, double edged and pointed tip knives over 11cm [4.3”]) can’t be made, sold or bought. The prohibited weapons restriction must make it rough for collectors of antique navajas,
As with state by state knife restrictions in the US, it would appear that European regulations are all over the map. I wonder if any of the laws in Europe are based on hard statistical evidence rather than a whimsical “you can’t have that because I don’t like it and I’m the mommy that’s why”. As for the US, I would be willing to bet the ranch that the welter of conflicting state laws are based on nothing more than nanny state caprice. “You don’t want that kid, you’ll put your eye out”. As a knife and sword collector of many years, I can say without a doubt that, in the highly unlikely event I found it necessary to commit premeditated murder with an edged weapon, I would choose something from my kitchen drawer, not my collection and that choice would be based on very practical reasons.

Sincerely,
RobT

Yes, every state in Europe has its own laws and sometimes it's difficult to understand. I had a woman from customs who was not well educated by the German weapon law. Everything is extremely confusing and unfortunately often illogical.

Regards,
Detlef