Jambiya/Telek

ariel · 28th May 2006, 01:45 PM

I have been puzzled by the remarkable similarity between the pommels of Saudi jambiya (often called Wahhabi jambiya) and Tuareg Telek
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...oto=nextnewest

and

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=605

(Hope I am not violating any rules posting other peoples' pics as illustrations)
The pommels are very idiosyncratic. I remember the assertion of "Christian" motives in the construction of Telek's pommel and Artzi mentions it as well. But Saudi??
Is it a coincidence? Just a peculiar idea occuring in two cultures independently? Or was there a common link between West Arabia and Tuareg tribes?

Tim Simmons · 28th May 2006, 05:20 PM

The Saharan "cross of Agadez" is believed to represent the four directions but could have more powerful masculine connotations. The telek hilt cross is also seen on the camel saddle. In jewellery the arms are most often of equal length and the Christian cross is only superficially similar. This four direction thing might? be common with desert nomads/dwellers so possibly? a link there to Arabia.
A cross motif can be found in use with animist peoples of West Africa and the Congo all having nothing to do with Christianity. Will try to post some examples.

Battara · 28th May 2006, 07:18 PM

Tim has a point (like the one on my head

) in that this is an archetypal symbol, the 4 directions. In many cases, it symbolizes the whole of the world/universe/existence.

However, in these cases I wonder how much of the Wahabi movement of the 1800s had influenced this style of hilt, or a common motif had influenced both the Wahabi and the telek carrying peoples.

TVV · 28th May 2006, 09:10 PM

I believe this particular type of hilt was associated with wahhabi jambiyas from the early 20th century, and it is attributed to the tribes Bani Malik and Bani Shahr. There are other styles, and I have posted the hilt on an example from my collection and a much finer example from Oriental Arms' archive for comparison.

I personally fail to see any connection between the Cross of Agadez and this particular style of pommel on early 20th century Wahhabi jambiyas. I think what appears to be a cross-shaped pommel is not a cross at all, simply a development of the older triangular pommell with decorative hollow spheres attached at the three angles.
Just my $ 0.02.
Teodor

28th May 2006, 01:45 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jambiya/Telek I have been puzzled by the remarkable similarity between the pommels of Saudi jambiya (often called Wahhabi jambiya) and Tuareg Telek http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...oto=nextnewest and http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=605 (Hope I am not violating any rules posting other peoples' pics as illustrations) The pommels are very idiosyncratic. I remember the assertion of "Christian" motives in the construction of Telek's pommel and Artzi mentions it as well. But Saudi?? Is it a coincidence? Just a peculiar idea occuring in two cultures independently? Or was there a common link between West Arabia and Tuareg tribes?

28th May 2006, 05:20 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,768	The Saharan "cross of Agadez" is believed to represent the four directions but could have more powerful masculine connotations. The telek hilt cross is also seen on the camel saddle. In jewellery the arms are most often of equal length and the Christian cross is only superficially similar. This four direction thing might? be common with desert nomads/dwellers so possibly? a link there to Arabia. A cross motif can be found in use with animist peoples of West Africa and the Congo all having nothing to do with Christianity. Will try to post some examples.

28th May 2006, 07:18 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,185	Tim has a point (like the one on my head ) in that this is an archetypal symbol, the 4 directions. In many cases, it symbolizes the whole of the world/universe/existence. However, in these cases I wonder how much of the Wahabi movement of the 1800s had influenced this style of hilt, or a common motif had influenced both the Wahabi and the telek carrying peoples.

28th May 2006, 09:10 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,611	I believe this particular type of hilt was associated with wahhabi jambiyas from the early 20th century, and it is attributed to the tribes Bani Malik and Bani Shahr. There are other styles, and I have posted the hilt on an example from my collection and a much finer example from Oriental Arms' archive for comparison. I personally fail to see any connection between the Cross of Agadez and this particular style of pommel on early 20th century Wahhabi jambiyas. I think what appears to be a cross-shaped pommel is not a cross at all, simply a development of the older triangular pommell with decorative hollow spheres attached at the three angles. Just my $ 0.02. Teodor