INDIAN JAMBIYA (JUMBEEA, JUMBIYAH)

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

I picked up this Jambiya a number of years ago and although the condition of the blade is down, I was particularly attracted to the Chevron design on the blade which I had only seen on Tulwars until this Jambiya surfaced. Given the chevron blade I have assumed this Jambiya to be Indian or Indo Persian.

Date : Circa 1700 (18th Century)
Overall Length: 39.3 cm 15 ½” in scabbard 38.1 cm 13 “ dagger only
Blade length: 25.8 cm 10 1/8”
Blade widest point: 5.1 cm 2”
Hilt length: 13 cm 5 1/8”
Marks, etc. faint traces of chevron decoration on blade

Description: JAMBIYA
Indian with heavily damascened Hilt with floral design. Blade has gentle central ridge in the Indian and or Persian style and has faint traces of chevron decoration. Scabbard is wood covered in silk with gilt mounts in a floral design.

Can anyone provide me with more information on how the chevron pattern is created in the steel and when and where it first came into use.


References:
Pant, Gayatri Nath, Indian Arms And Armour Volume Ii (Swords And Daggers) Pp 96,158,160.


Cheers Cathey and Rex

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Guys

I picked up this Jambiya a number of years ago and although the condition of the blade is down, I was particularly attracted to the Chevron design on the blade which I had only seen on Tulwars until this Jambiya surfaced. Given the chevron blade I have assumed this Jambiya to be Indian or Indo Persian.

Date : Circa 1700 (18th Century)
Overall Length: 39.3 cm 15 ½” in scabbard 38.1 cm 13 “ dagger only
Blade length: 25.8 cm 10 1/8”
Blade widest point: 5.1 cm 2”
Hilt length: 13 cm 5 1/8”
Marks, etc. faint traces of chevron decoration on blade

Description: JAMBIYA
Indian with heavily damascened Hilt with floral design. Blade has gentle central ridge in the Indian and or Persian style and has faint traces of chevron decoration. Scabbard is wood covered in silk with gilt mounts in a floral design.

Can anyone provide me with more information on how the chevron pattern is created in the steel and when and where it first came into use.


References:
Pant, Gayatri Nath, Indian Arms And Armour Volume Ii (Swords And Daggers) Pp 96,158,160.


Cheers Cathey and Rex

It is hard to tell from the photos but from what I can see the gold decoration looks quite new compared to the wear on the blade and scabbard......or is the gold worn and I just can not see it?

From Jim McDougall

The chevron pattern is said by Pant to be termed 'ganga-yamuni' for India's two famous rivers, the Ganges (white water) and the Yamuni (dark water).The design is accomplished by welding light damascus steel, and darker iron in the chevron pattern signifying these rivers (Pant.p.96).
Rawson alternatively notes the technique using wax resist on mechanical damask blade before steel was watered (pl.4). Although he suggests this method was often used in the 19th c. the blade on the example he shows he states is 17th c.

From Manouchehr M.

Please note that Chevron blade is still being made and as you know it is a type of mechanical damascus blade. There are two types of cehvron blades:

1) Either the whole blade is of mechanical damascus and then different parts are etched differently.

2) Two types of steel (high carbon mono and mechanical damscus) are welded together.

Please note that in the knife industry many knifemakers in Europe and the USA have made this pattern on their modern knives. Besides there are still being made in India. I recently handled a tulwar with such pattern which was made recently in India.

One more possible type.

One more type...with pieces of wootz damascus and pattern welded steel welded together (a blade like this would be worth a small fortune). This type is supposed to be the rarest is of Chevron patterned Blades.

Another view on the terms used for this type pf pattern.

"Ganga Jamuna" is used to describe the decoration on hilts and other objects which are decorated in Silver and Gold together. The contrast of Silver and Gold leads to the term 'Ganga' and 'Jamua' (referring to the two sacred rivers of India). "Lehariya" in contrast is used to describe the chevron patterned blades. The above terms are still used in India. If you were to refer to a chevron patterned blade as "Ganga Jamuni", there would be a lot confusion .

The term "Lehariya" is not so common for the simple reason that these blades are quite uncommon and rarely seen. So you will find that only Sword dealers and certain people with knowledge of weapons are familiar with the term. The term "Ganga Jamuna" on the other hand is quite common as it is used by the Jeweller community too. It refers to a style of work in which both silver and Gold have been used in contrast....the objects could be Hilts, Hooka's, Vases, Bowls etc. etc. which have this type of decoration. The Jeweller community regularly deals in these type of objects and are hence familiar with that term.

[Jens Nordlunde]

The correct chevron blade are made from pattern welded and mono steel forged together. The blades made with wax are 'the poor man's' blades, and are not the right kind of chevron blades.
Chevron blades were made in the 19th century for the durbars and exhibitions to show the craftmanship of a master smith.
The picture shows a detail of a correct chevron blade. Notice the little flaw between the first pattern welded chevron, and the second mono steel chevron, where the two chevrons have been forged together.
See A Passion for Indian Arms pp. 190-192 and 198-200.

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Cathey and Rex,

I am sorry to dissapoint you but I am pretty sure your dagger is of rather modern production... 20th century... and the blade was artificially aged.

But this is of course just my oppinion, and it might be wrong.

Regards,

Marius

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

The correct chevron blade are made from pattern welded and mono steel forged together. The blades made with wax are 'the poor man's' blades, and are not the right kind of chevron blades.
Chevron blades were made in the 19th century for the durbars and exhibitions to show the craftmanship of a master smith.
The picture shows a detail of a correct chevron blade. Notice the little flaw between the first pattern welded chevron, and the second mono steel chevron, where the two chevrons have been forged together.
See A Passion for Indian Arms pp. 190-192 and 198-200.

It's interesting to note that Cathey's blade shows a forging flaw in the same area.

[Drabant1701]

Robert Elgood writes about a sabre with a chevron blade on page 146-147 in "Arms and armour of the Jaipur Court" The scabbard is silk with pierced gilt brass locket and chape. He dates that sabre to mid. 20th century. There is text about the origin of the chevron blades and those who made them. From what I can deduct from the text, most chevron blade are not very old, late 19th century and forward and are still being made today.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes it seems so, but it would be easier to see, if the blade had been cleaned and etched.

[ariel]

I am with Rick: noticed it right away, and in more that a single place.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Cathey, you now and again see the chevron patter on daggers as well.
Ariel - nice to see that you are still there:-).

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Guys

I picked up this Jambiya a number of years ago and although the condition of the blade is down, I was particularly attracted to the Chevron design on the blade which I had only seen on Tulwars until this Jambiya surfaced. Given the chevron blade I have assumed this Jambiya to be Indian or Indo Persian.

Date : Circa 1700 (18th Century)
Overall Length: 39.3 cm 15 ½” in scabbard 38.1 cm 13 “ dagger only
Blade length: 25.8 cm 10 1/8”
Blade widest point: 5.1 cm 2”
Hilt length: 13 cm 5 1/8”
Marks, etc. faint traces of chevron decoration on blade

Description: JAMBIYA
Indian with heavily damascened Hilt with floral design. Blade has gentle central ridge in the Indian and or Persian style and has faint traces of chevron decoration. Scabbard is wood covered in silk with gilt mounts in a floral design.

Can anyone provide me with more information on how the chevron pattern is created in the steel and when and where it first came into use.


References:
Pant, Gayatri Nath, Indian Arms And Armour Volume Ii (Swords And Daggers) Pp 96,158,160.


Cheers Cathey and Rex

Salaams Cathey and Rex, A great subject and a superb photo and detail though I always have to consider what the difference is between an Indian Khanjar and an Indian Jambia since name-wise one probably comes from the Persian and the other from Arabia ...Yemen. I saw http://www.ewtodanmark.dk/magazine/no%204/Data/p06.html which outlines some variety in Indian Daggers...
I noticed slots in the blade of one follow up example above and filled by small round balls of the style tears of the afflicted. Pulling the right date out of the hat is an art best left to Mr Jens since I just cannot tell from a photo how old these weapons are but in Persian examples they go back to the 16th Century according to The Met. Some delightful examples appear from Moghal court weapons later and these were also sold to Ottoman clients..
Altogether a great subject...

For interest see http://mandarinmansion.com/talwar-lehria-chevron-blade where a an experiment in bending a Chevron sword blade showed it was equally as strong as other blades and demonstrated by Richard Furrer.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Below a few Indian Daggers ..one with tears of the wounded/tears of the afflicted in the hilt. Chevron sword blade included for interest. The lower Chilanum has an unusual Chevron decorated hilt.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I always have to consider what the difference is between an Indian Khanjar and an Indian Jambia

Simple really, a "jambiya" has a double edged, single curved blade. A khanjar has a double edged, double curved blade. These are the terms used by western collectors, dealers, museums etc.....but certain cultures such as in Oman refer to what we would call a jambiya as being a khanjar and some people simply apply whatever term they want to any dagger despite the obvious difference in blade types, below is an example, "khanjar" on the left, "jambiya" on the right.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams estcrh~ That other culture as you note has an entirely different terminology ... Both blades are virtually identical in Omani Khanjars and Yemeni/ Saudia Jambias..but the scabbards are different and occasionally where they are carried on the belt changes...and Jambia janb... on the side ...occasionally refers....although if it is actually worn on the side in Yemen they call them Thumah.

As a simple rule it is an Omani Khanjar and a Yemeni Jambia. Locals never mix the two definitions. If I was to point to origins of Omani Khanjar I could indicate Persian as being the likely source. I assume therefor that Indian weapons flowed from there...but it is way back in the fog of history.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Cathey]

HI Guys

Whilst I understand your skepticism, I was fortunate enough to have an expert on Indian Weapons visit me from Israel a number of years back and review all of the items in my collection including this one. This gentleman has over 500 Jambiya's in his personal collection and was the proprietor of Oriental Arms at the time.

A number of collectors attending that evening and also presented items for authentication, sadly not all passed and I confess I was also nervous at the time. Fortunately and to my surprise all of my items passed as Genuine, even those I personally had doubts about.

The gilt does look better in my photograph than in real life and has stood up better than the blade over the years. I would say the piece is late 19th Century.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Cathey

The gilt does look better in my photograph than in real life and has stood up better than the blade over the years. I would say the piece is late 19th Century.

Which is why good, close, detailed images are really necessary in order to help determine authenticity / age etc.