Question about Filipino weapons, doubled edged and/or two handed.

[Rafngard]

Hello All,

A random thing got me thinking about double-edged and two-handed swords today.

Am I correct in thinking that:

1) there are no Filipino double-edged, two-handed swords?

2) only (arguably) the Kampilan and the Panabas qualify as two-handed Filipino sword?

3) only the Moro kris qualifies as a double edged Filipino sword (I'm not thinking about shorter weapons here).

Thanks in advance,
Leif

[mross]

Seems mostly right to me. I would not classify the Kampilan as two handed. Certainly the Panabas. Where would you put the spear? While not a sword, for sure two handed.

[kino]

Cato states in his Arts of Asia article that "the Kampilan was made to be wielded with 2 hands". I think certainly it could be used with a second hand.

Some padsumbalin Panabas' exhibits a dual edge. Some have at least 2/3 of its top edge sharpened.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by mross

Seems mostly right to me. I would not classify the Kampilan as two handed. Certainly the Panabas. Where would you put the spear? While not a sword, for sure two handed.

It might be considered as two handed given the average height for a Filipino male.

[Rafngard]

Hello all,

Regarding the debate on two-handed kampilans, this is why I said arguably ;-)

The panabas thing is interesting. I need to study them more.

As context, in addition to collecting weapons from maritime south east asia, I also study martial arts from the area, mostly Silat and, relevantly, Kali (Eskrima/Arnis, what have you). It occured to me Sunday evening that all the strikes I know utilize the true edge (or occasionally the flat of the blade), with nothing on the false edge. However, on the three Moro kris and one Malay Sundang, all but one of them have nicks on both edges. So I have to wonder. How were they used?

Now, I am far from an expert, on most things really, and I know that the majority of publicly taught FMA schools have origins in either the Visayans or Luzon, but I still find this interesting.

Thanks,
Leif

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rafngard

It occured to me Sunday evening that all the strikes I know utilize the true edge (or occasionally the flat of the blade), with nothing on the false edge. However, on the three Moro kris and one Malay Sundang, all but one of them have nicks on both edges. So I have to wonder. How were they used?

The Moro kris has two sharp edges so it seems nearby that both sides get used so why you surprised to find nicks on even this edges? The same you can say about the sundang.

Regards,
Detlef

[Rafngard]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The Moro kris has two sharp edges so it seems nearby that both sides get used so why you surprised to find nicks on even this edges? The same you can say about the sundang.

I think it's not so much surprising as confirming that the moro kris was used in ways different than the arts that are openly pracriced today.

I thought that maybe, because:

1) the moro kris is unique (i.e.the only doubled-edged sword) in the Phillipines,
2) the basic design was based on the smaller indonesian keris and
3) the schools that teach openly don't teach false edge cuts

Maybe it was used like all other swords in the Phillipines, and used only with true edge cuts. However, the nicks on false edge disprove that possibility.

So more than anything, I really want to know what Moro fighting arts with the kris were like.

Thanks,
Leif