Not an arm or armour, but maybe you can help

AHorsa · 21st November 2015, 11:43 AM

Hello,

I just received this french ground find. Diameter is 4cm and it seems to be made of bronze. It is showing the counterfeit of a 17th cent. person. Does anyone of you have an idea what this could be/was used for?

Cheers
Andreas

Jim McDougall · 21st November 2015, 05:04 PM

Maybe posting this in the 'miscellania' forum might be better suited ?

kronckew · 21st November 2015, 06:29 PM

belt plate? horse harness decoration (horse brass)?

kahnjar1 · 21st November 2015, 07:38 PM

Maybe a seal for using with sealing wax? Frankly I have no idea but just a suggestion.
Stu

A. G. Maisey · 21st November 2015, 10:01 PM

disregard

A Senefelder · 21st November 2015, 10:30 PM

I have no idea what this is but thought it odd that the two holes were punched from opposite sides, one punched front to back, one punched back to front ( as shown by the remnants of the cone created by driving a sharp implement through the metal ).

Oliver Pinchot · 22nd November 2015, 02:04 AM

Appears to depict Leopold I Holy Roman Emperor (1640-1705)
also knows as "Hogmouth" for his distinctive Habsburg chin.

AHorsa · 24th November 2015, 08:58 PM

Thanks for the answers!
Yes, those holes seem to be drilled unprofessional through the metal. VBut in old times before it landed in the ground.
@ Oliver: Possible, but I´m afraid the many noble persons of this time looked like that.

There is a rest of some connection or the like left on the left side (picture of the back). Maybe this can give a hint...

Thanks and best regards
Andreas

Dave T. · 3rd December 2015, 01:49 AM

"...thought it odd that the two holes were punched from opposite sides, one punched front to back, one punched back to front ( as shown by the remnants of the cone created by driving a sharp implement through the metal )."

I think I see the reason for the holes coming from different directions. The design on the disc is repousse work, where the thin metal is hammered from the back side to create a raised design. If one tried to drill or punch a hole where there was a hollow under the thin metal it would distort the design. You would flip the piece whichever way would put the thin metal directly against a firm backing surface (like a block of wood or lead) before you tried to punch a hole at that spot. The hole on the left was in a depressed area of the design, so it could be punched without flipping the disc onto its face.

21st November 2015, 11:43 AM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 373	Not an arm or armour, but maybe you can help Hello, I just received this french ground find. Diameter is 4cm and it seems to be made of bronze. It is showing the counterfeit of a 17th cent. person. Does anyone of you have an idea what this could be/was used for? Cheers Andreas Attached Images

21st November 2015, 10:01 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,953	disregard Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 21st November 2015 at 10:03 PM. Reason: wrong suggestion.

21st November 2015, 05:04 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,062	Maybe posting this in the 'miscellania' forum might be better suited ?

21st November 2015, 06:29 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,204	belt plate? horse harness decoration (horse brass)?

21st November 2015, 07:38 PM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,771	Maybe a seal for using with sealing wax? Frankly I have no idea but just a suggestion. Stu

21st November 2015, 10:30 PM	#6
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I have no idea what this is but thought it odd that the two holes were punched from opposite sides, one punched front to back, one punched back to front ( as shown by the remnants of the cone created by driving a sharp implement through the metal ).

22nd November 2015, 02:04 AM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 460	Appears to depict Leopold I Holy Roman Emperor (1640-1705) also knows as "Hogmouth" for his distinctive Habsburg chin.

24th November 2015, 08:58 PM	#8
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 373	Thanks for the answers! Yes, those holes seem to be drilled unprofessional through the metal. VBut in old times before it landed in the ground. @ Oliver: Possible, but I´m afraid the many noble persons of this time looked like that. There is a rest of some connection or the like left on the left side (picture of the back). Maybe this can give a hint... Thanks and best regards Andreas

3rd December 2015, 01:49 AM	#9
Dave T. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1	"...thought it odd that the two holes were punched from opposite sides, one punched front to back, one punched back to front ( as shown by the remnants of the cone created by driving a sharp implement through the metal )." I think I see the reason for the holes coming from different directions. The design on the disc is repousse work, where the thin metal is hammered from the back side to create a raised design. If one tried to drill or punch a hole where there was a hollow under the thin metal it would distort the design. You would flip the piece whichever way would put the thin metal directly against a firm backing surface (like a block of wood or lead) before you tried to punch a hole at that spot. The hole on the left was in a depressed area of the design, so it could be punched without flipping the disc onto its face.