ANOTHER BANDOLIER...Origins please?

kahnjar1 · 5th May 2015, 02:23 AM

Just received this nice powder bandolier and I am curious as to the origins.
The powder holders are turned wood, with unfortunately one missing, but a replacement can easily be made. Also the belt has gone. The stopper plugs are shaped leather, with nice leather lids. All well made of good leather and very nicely decorated on the face with brass studs and embroidery.
What do we think?
Stu

Kubur · 5th May 2015, 08:14 AM

Hi,
Just few comments, the top looks like Ottoman embroidery and tapestry nails remind me Morocco or South Yemen Hadramawt. If I have to choose I will say Hadramawt.
Kubur

kahnjar1 · 6th May 2015, 07:24 AM

Don't personally think Arabian. More likely Ottoman/Caucasus region IMHO, but then I am no expert in these.

kahnjar1 · 7th May 2015, 10:05 AM

No thoughts?

Kubur · 7th May 2015, 10:13 AM

Like you, no more ideas... Watch this Omani one...

kahnjar1 · 7th May 2015, 10:17 AM

Yes that is Omani, but nothing like the one I was requesting information on.

rickystl · 9th May 2015, 09:15 PM

Hi Stu.
Me think it's trying to grow legs to walk/swim to MY house. LOL!!
That is very cool!! And would go perfectly with MY Jazail. LOL!!
My guess is Afghan or Ottoman. Unlike the metal Ottoman/Greek bullet containers used to carry pre-formed combustible type cartridges (powder/paper/ball), the wood containers look like they were designed to carry just pre-measured powder charges. And a very clever design with the fabric/leather fold over stoppers. It looks like the buckle has a roller. That might place it a bit latter in the 19th Century (?).
A VERY neat item. Congrats.
Rick.

kahnjar1 · 9th May 2015, 11:03 PM

Hi Rick,
The sellers description was AFGHAN but I am more inclined to think Ottoman. The containers are wood, so likely to be for measured doses of powder rather than complete cartridges. The stoppers are totally leather--no woolfibre stoppers as in the Omani bandolier which I have in my collection and YES the buckle has a roller.
Here are pics of two similar shaped bandoliers sold by Hermann Historica, and described as Ottoman.
Stu

rickystl · 10th May 2015, 06:44 PM

Hi Stu.
Based on these two photos, it does appear to be Ottoman. The gold/silver stitch design sure looks Ottoman. Again, very good find.
Also, if we determine the origin is Ottoman, we could conclude that it would look really good with MY Ottoman Tufuk Rifle I recently posted. LOL !!

Rick.

Kubur · 10th May 2015, 06:58 PM

I totally agree with Rick and Stu, Ottoman.
But as you may know, Ottoman for me is just a period and an Empire full of different people. So where your belt come from? You had Ottomans from Aden to Sarajevo...

Kubur · 15th May 2015, 11:57 AM

Sold by a famous dealer
Antique Turkish Leather Cartridge Case

You was right.
Kubur

rickystl · 16th May 2015, 06:46 PM

Looks like the evidence is mounting that Stu's Bandolier is likely Ottoman. So I'm going to agree. Thanks for the Post Kubur. Rick.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th May 2015, 06:53 PM

Salaams all, Certainly the #1 thread subject is Ottoman...

In dealing with its possible copied style and in this case comparing it with Omani examples....There is a similar part of a bandolier see #16 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15083

(Thinking it through...and thinking aloud the main barrel charge was carried in these containers and the priming-pan gunpowder in the finely silvered and decorated powder flask.)

The similarity in design seems to indicate that the Ottoman style of bandolier may have influened the Omani style, though, this has yet to be proven. There is uncertainty as to how this belt may have entered the Omani Souk...It may for example simply have joined the Souk via Yemen...and the outpouring of antiquities because of internal strife.

However, the very Omani looking belt section seems to indicate an older Omani provenance at #5 but is it Omani or Yemeni? The two styles of silver buttonwork ...Omani and Yemeni were somewhat similar.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Kubur · 25th May 2015, 08:30 PM

Another dated evidence, just above the left sword...
Kubur

9th May 2015, 11:03 PM	#8
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Rick, The sellers description was AFGHAN but I am more inclined to think Ottoman. The containers are wood, so likely to be for measured doses of powder rather than complete cartridges. The stoppers are totally leather--no woolfibre stoppers as in the Omani bandolier which I have in my collection and YES the buckle has a roller. Here are pics of two similar shaped bandoliers sold by Hermann Historica, and described as Ottoman. Stu Attached Images

15th May 2015, 11:57 AM	#11
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Sold by a famous dealer Antique Turkish Leather Cartridge Case You was right. Kubur Attached Images

25th May 2015, 06:53 PM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all, Certainly the #1 thread subject is Ottoman... In dealing with its possible copied style and in this case comparing it with Omani examples....There is a similar part of a bandolier see #16 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15083 (Thinking it through...and thinking aloud the main barrel charge was carried in these containers and the priming-pan gunpowder in the finely silvered and decorated powder flask.) The similarity in design seems to indicate that the Ottoman style of bandolier may have influened the Omani style, though, this has yet to be proven. There is uncertainty as to how this belt may have entered the Omani Souk...It may for example simply have joined the Souk via Yemen...and the outpouring of antiquities because of internal strife. However, the very Omani looking belt section seems to indicate an older Omani provenance at #5 but is it Omani or Yemeni? The two styles of silver buttonwork ...Omani and Yemeni were somewhat similar. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 25th May 2015 at 07:13 PM.

25th May 2015, 08:30 PM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Another dated evidence, just above the left sword... Kubur Attached Images

5th May 2015, 02:23 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	ANOTHER BANDOLIER...Origins please? Just received this nice powder bandolier and I am curious as to the origins. The powder holders are turned wood, with unfortunately one missing, but a replacement can easily be made. Also the belt has gone. The stopper plugs are shaped leather, with nice leather lids. All well made of good leather and very nicely decorated on the face with brass studs and embroidery. What do we think? Stu Attached Images

5th May 2015, 08:14 AM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi, Just few comments, the top looks like Ottoman embroidery and tapestry nails remind me Morocco or South Yemen Hadramawt. If I have to choose I will say Hadramawt. Kubur

6th May 2015, 07:24 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Don't personally think Arabian. More likely Ottoman/Caucasus region IMHO, but then I am no expert in these.

7th May 2015, 10:05 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	No thoughts?

7th May 2015, 10:13 AM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Like you, no more ideas... Watch this Omani one... Attached Images

7th May 2015, 10:17 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Yes that is Omani, but nothing like the one I was requesting information on.

9th May 2015, 09:15 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Stu. Me think it's trying to grow legs to walk/swim to MY house. LOL!! That is very cool!! And would go perfectly with MY Jazail. LOL!! My guess is Afghan or Ottoman. Unlike the metal Ottoman/Greek bullet containers used to carry pre-formed combustible type cartridges (powder/paper/ball), the wood containers look like they were designed to carry just pre-measured powder charges. And a very clever design with the fabric/leather fold over stoppers. It looks like the buckle has a roller. That might place it a bit latter in the 19th Century (?). A VERY neat item. Congrats. Rick.

10th May 2015, 06:44 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Stu. Based on these two photos, it does appear to be Ottoman. The gold/silver stitch design sure looks Ottoman. Again, very good find. Also, if we determine the origin is Ottoman, we could conclude that it would look really good with MY Ottoman Tufuk Rifle I recently posted. LOL !! Rick.

10th May 2015, 06:58 PM	#10
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I totally agree with Rick and Stu, Ottoman. But as you may know, Ottoman for me is just a period and an Empire full of different people. So where your belt come from? You had Ottomans from Aden to Sarajevo...

16th May 2015, 06:46 PM	#12
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Looks like the evidence is mounting that Stu's Bandolier is likely Ottoman. So I'm going to agree. Thanks for the Post Kubur. Rick.