Chinese pole arm

DaveA · 5th November 2014, 05:52 AM

Hello all,

Way back in 2007, we discussed this odd pole arm from China and generated some interesting ideas. However, the shape of the pole arm was never identified and it certainly doesn't look like other glaives from China of which I'm aware. Now, there is a new clue! I have just bought this odd green carved stone sword (see pictures) precisely because it is the ONLY thing I've seen in 7 years that resembles the original pole arm.

Any thoughts? Does this stir any new ideas about the original?

Thanks in advance for your comments!

This is the thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...3379#post53379 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...3379#post53379

Since the original pictures from the post are no longer there, I attach some of them here.

Best Regards,

Dave A.

Gavin Nugent · 5th November 2014, 10:35 AM

Both made to please tourists in my opinion.

Gavin

Shakethetrees · 5th November 2014, 03:50 PM

Yes, in the last image you can see a modern weld bead holding the ferrule to the grip.

Shakethetrees · 5th November 2014, 03:54 PM

A while back I posted an image of an original one that is the inspiration for these, but there were no comments.

I'll repost it here to see if it gets any action.

VANDOO · 5th November 2014, 05:41 PM

THE LAST EXAMPLE YOU SHOW MAY BE THE BLADE OF A ORIGINAL ONE BUT IT IS DIFFICULT TO BE SURE. THIS FORM OF POLE ARM WAS MADE FAMOUS BY GENERAL KWAN YU WHO DIED IN 220 BC, (CHOU DYNASTY FROM 1027 TO 221 BC). HE IS STILL VENERATED AND CONSIDERED A GREAT LEGENDARY HERO IN CHINA TODAY SO HIS WRITINGS, WEAPONS ,ECT. ARE STILL IN DEMAND AND HAVE BEEN MADE FROM THEN TO THE PRESENT. THE FORM OF THE LAST BLADE IS A POLEARM CALLED A QUANDAO AND OVER TIME THERE ARE NOW QUITE A FEW VARIATIONS IN THE BLADES. THE STRANGE SWORDS AND STONE CARVINGS NO DOUBT EVOLVED FROM THIS ORIGINAL LEGENDARY WEAPON THE GENERAL WAS SAID TO HAVE USED.
SETS OF THESE CHINESE POLE ARMS WITH DIFFERENT HEADS ARE SEEN DISPLAYED IN RACKS IN MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOLS, PALACES, MUSEUMS ECT AND THEY ARE STILL MADE FOR SALE TODAY IN BOTH FULL SIZE AND MINATURES FOR SALE TO TOURISTS.
HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES THE SINGLE ONE WAS SOLD BY ORIENTAL ARMS SOME TIME AGO AND FEATURES A LONG STRAIGHT BLADE VARIATION. THE OTHERS ARE DISPLAYS IN MUSEUMS. YOU CAN FIND OUT A LOT MORE HISTORY SEARCHING FOR KWAN YU AND QUANDAO. GOOD LUCK

Gavin Nugent · 5th November 2014, 10:25 PM

It is my belief that the two items you present in thread one are only tributes to ancient weapons like these below.

Gavin

ariel · 7th November 2014, 02:01 PM

Any weaponry coming out of China these days is a fake unless proven otherwise.

DaveA · 7th November 2014, 04:13 PM

I appreciate the thoughtful comments and the pictures. I'm familiar with the Quan Do and the associated venerable history. The other photos of polearms illustrate the variety from the region, commensurate with the range found in historical Europe and India.

In my original post in this thread, disregard the provenance of the green sword. I included it only because the shape is unique and reminiscent of the older steel weapon. I thought it might provide a clue.

The older pole arm I acquired in a lot from an estate that included a number of American and European swords dating to late 19th C. This pole arm was the one oddity. I was led to understand it had been in the deceased's collection at least since the 1940s to early 1950s. I'm pretty sure that is well before the fakery we see today became the rule rather than the exception.

Regarding the "weld bead" apparently shown in the last photo: on close inspection this is a spot on the ring that was hammered flat to secure it tightly to the hilt, not a weld. I will try to get a good close up later and post it here. It is a good reminder of the limitations of photography as opposed to holding a specimen in your own hands!

Best Regards,

Dave A

5th November 2014, 05:52 AM	#1
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Chinese pole arm Hello all, Way back in 2007, we discussed this odd pole arm from China and generated some interesting ideas. However, the shape of the pole arm was never identified and it certainly doesn't look like other glaives from China of which I'm aware. Now, there is a new clue! I have just bought this odd green carved stone sword (see pictures) precisely because it is the ONLY thing I've seen in 7 years that resembles the original pole arm. Any thoughts? Does this stir any new ideas about the original? Thanks in advance for your comments! This is the thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...3379#post53379 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...3379#post53379 Since the original pictures from the post are no longer there, I attach some of them here. Best Regards, Dave A. Attached Images

5th November 2014, 03:54 PM	#4
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	A while back I posted an image of an original one that is the inspiration for these, but there were no comments. I'll repost it here to see if it gets any action. Attached Images

5th November 2014, 05:41 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE LAST EXAMPLE YOU SHOW MAY BE THE BLADE OF A ORIGINAL ONE BUT IT IS DIFFICULT TO BE SURE. THIS FORM OF POLE ARM WAS MADE FAMOUS BY GENERAL KWAN YU WHO DIED IN 220 BC, (CHOU DYNASTY FROM 1027 TO 221 BC). HE IS STILL VENERATED AND CONSIDERED A GREAT LEGENDARY HERO IN CHINA TODAY SO HIS WRITINGS, WEAPONS ,ECT. ARE STILL IN DEMAND AND HAVE BEEN MADE FROM THEN TO THE PRESENT. THE FORM OF THE LAST BLADE IS A POLEARM CALLED A QUANDAO AND OVER TIME THERE ARE NOW QUITE A FEW VARIATIONS IN THE BLADES. THE STRANGE SWORDS AND STONE CARVINGS NO DOUBT EVOLVED FROM THIS ORIGINAL LEGENDARY WEAPON THE GENERAL WAS SAID TO HAVE USED. SETS OF THESE CHINESE POLE ARMS WITH DIFFERENT HEADS ARE SEEN DISPLAYED IN RACKS IN MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOLS, PALACES, MUSEUMS ECT AND THEY ARE STILL MADE FOR SALE TODAY IN BOTH FULL SIZE AND MINATURES FOR SALE TO TOURISTS. HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES THE SINGLE ONE WAS SOLD BY ORIENTAL ARMS SOME TIME AGO AND FEATURES A LONG STRAIGHT BLADE VARIATION. THE OTHERS ARE DISPLAYS IN MUSEUMS. YOU CAN FIND OUT A LOT MORE HISTORY SEARCHING FOR KWAN YU AND QUANDAO. GOOD LUCK Attached Images

5th November 2014, 10:25 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	It is my belief that the two items you present in thread one are only tributes to ancient weapons like these below. Gavin Attached Images

7th November 2014, 04:13 PM	#8
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Thank you for your comments I appreciate the thoughtful comments and the pictures. I'm familiar with the Quan Do and the associated venerable history. The other photos of polearms illustrate the variety from the region, commensurate with the range found in historical Europe and India. In my original post in this thread, disregard the provenance of the green sword. I included it only because the shape is unique and reminiscent of the older steel weapon. I thought it might provide a clue. The older pole arm I acquired in a lot from an estate that included a number of American and European swords dating to late 19th C. This pole arm was the one oddity. I was led to understand it had been in the deceased's collection at least since the 1940s to early 1950s. I'm pretty sure that is well before the fakery we see today became the rule rather than the exception. Regarding the "weld bead" apparently shown in the last photo: on close inspection this is a spot on the ring that was hammered flat to secure it tightly to the hilt, not a weld. I will try to get a good close up later and post it here. It is a good reminder of the limitations of photography as opposed to holding a specimen in your own hands! Best Regards, Dave A

5th November 2014, 10:35 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Both made to please tourists in my opinion. Gavin

5th November 2014, 03:50 PM	#3
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	Yes, in the last image you can see a modern weld bead holding the ferrule to the grip.

7th November 2014, 02:01 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Any weaponry coming out of China these days is a fake unless proven otherwise.