Whistlinbill's Collection #3: Spears

Lee · 21st December 2011, 02:19 PM

I find identification of spears to be especially difficult, particularly out of context. European; Roman to medieval?

Atlantia · 21st December 2011, 02:47 PM

OMG Bill, I have one word for you: CONSERVATION!

Multumesc · 21st February 2012, 01:50 PM

Can be cleaned by immersion in undiluted vinegar. Every morning to remove and clean them with a plastic brush. After 7-8 days rinse them with distilled water. After drying them clean with wire brush. In what context have been discovered and can we know of that period are. Success.

Matchlock · 22nd February 2012, 02:43 PM

Exactly, Lee,

I, too, am afraid that without any information about the local circumances of finding those, nobody can tell for sure whether these are Roman or Medieval/Renaissance. Their general shape and forging techniques have both remained more or less the same over more than 1,500 years.

At least two of them might even be 16th-17th c. pike irons.

Best,
Michael

VANDOO · 26th February 2012, 11:44 PM

ATTEMPTING TO CLEAN ITEMS SUCH AS THESE OFTEN RESULTS IN A PILE OF DUST AND NO RELIC. #1 LOOKS WELL BEYOND HELP.
IN SUCH CASES STOPPING FURTHER RUSTING BY REMOVING ALL MOISTURE AND SEALING THE RELIC SO NO MOISTURE CAN GET BACK IN. IDEALLY REMOVING OXYGEN AS WELL AS MOISTURE WOULD BE GOOD BUT UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES IMPOSSIBLE. IN SOME CASES SEALING THE ENTIRE ITEM IN RESIN TO HOLD IT TOGETHER AS WELL AS STOP FURTHER DETERIOTION IS DONE, BUT THIS ELIMINATES THE OBJECT FROM ANY FURTHER STUDY EVEN IF NEW DATEING TECKNIQUES BECOME AVAILABLE.
AS THESE OBJECTS HAVE NO PROVENANCE OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE AND ONLY GUESSES CAN BE MADE BY LOOKING AT THEIR FORM AND MAKEING COMPARISONS INCASING THEM WOULD NOT BE OUT OF LINE. AS THEY ARE NOW, EACH TIME THEY ARE HANDLED A BIT MORE WILL CRUMBLE OFF AND SOON THERE WILL BE A CHUNK OF IRON WITH LESS SHAPE AND DETAIL TO STUDY. THE ENCRUSTATION DOES GIVE THEM MORE CARACTER THAN JUST A MIS-SHAPEN HUNK OF IRON HAS.
FROM THE FRAGILE COATING (INCRUSTATION) IT CAN BE DETERMINED IF THIS WAS A RELIC THAT WAS ACTUALLY DUG UP AND OLD OR ONE ARTIFICALLY AGED SO IF THAT IS CLEANED OFF INFORMATION IS LOST. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT BILL WANTS TO DO WITH THEM BUT BEAR IN MIND IF JUST CONSIGNED BACK INTO A BOX WITH NOTHING DONE TO THEM WHEN NEXT SEEN THAY WILL BE IN WORSE SHAPE AND MORE FRAGILE.

22nd February 2012, 02:43 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Lee, I, too, am afraid that without any information about the local circumances of finding those, nobody can tell for sure whether these are Roman or Medieval/Renaissance. Their general shape and forging techniques have both remained more or less the same over more than 1,500 years. At least two of them might even be 16th-17th c. pike irons. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 22nd February 2012 at 04:35 PM.

21st December 2011, 02:19 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Whistlinbill's Collection #3: Spears I find identification of spears to be especially difficult, particularly out of context. European; Roman to medieval? Attached Images

21st December 2011, 02:47 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	OMG Bill, I have one word for you: CONSERVATION!

21st February 2012, 01:50 PM	#3
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 203	Can be cleaned by immersion in undiluted vinegar. Every morning to remove and clean them with a plastic brush. After 7-8 days rinse them with distilled water. After drying them clean with wire brush. In what context have been discovered and can we know of that period are. Success.

26th February 2012, 11:44 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ATTEMPTING TO CLEAN ITEMS SUCH AS THESE OFTEN RESULTS IN A PILE OF DUST AND NO RELIC. #1 LOOKS WELL BEYOND HELP. IN SUCH CASES STOPPING FURTHER RUSTING BY REMOVING ALL MOISTURE AND SEALING THE RELIC SO NO MOISTURE CAN GET BACK IN. IDEALLY REMOVING OXYGEN AS WELL AS MOISTURE WOULD BE GOOD BUT UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES IMPOSSIBLE. IN SOME CASES SEALING THE ENTIRE ITEM IN RESIN TO HOLD IT TOGETHER AS WELL AS STOP FURTHER DETERIOTION IS DONE, BUT THIS ELIMINATES THE OBJECT FROM ANY FURTHER STUDY EVEN IF NEW DATEING TECKNIQUES BECOME AVAILABLE. AS THESE OBJECTS HAVE NO PROVENANCE OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE AND ONLY GUESSES CAN BE MADE BY LOOKING AT THEIR FORM AND MAKEING COMPARISONS INCASING THEM WOULD NOT BE OUT OF LINE. AS THEY ARE NOW, EACH TIME THEY ARE HANDLED A BIT MORE WILL CRUMBLE OFF AND SOON THERE WILL BE A CHUNK OF IRON WITH LESS SHAPE AND DETAIL TO STUDY. THE ENCRUSTATION DOES GIVE THEM MORE CARACTER THAN JUST A MIS-SHAPEN HUNK OF IRON HAS. FROM THE FRAGILE COATING (INCRUSTATION) IT CAN BE DETERMINED IF THIS WAS A RELIC THAT WAS ACTUALLY DUG UP AND OLD OR ONE ARTIFICALLY AGED SO IF THAT IS CLEANED OFF INFORMATION IS LOST. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT BILL WANTS TO DO WITH THEM BUT BEAR IN MIND IF JUST CONSIGNED BACK INTO A BOX WITH NOTHING DONE TO THEM WHEN NEXT SEEN THAY WILL BE IN WORSE SHAPE AND MORE FRAGILE.