KATTARA/SAYF (SAIF) CLASSIFICATION

[kahnjar1]

I read with interest Ibrahiim's latest conclusion that the Omani Kattara is in fact not a Kattara at all, but in fact is a Sayf. His opinion is that the term Kattara is used to describe a curved blade sword and not one with a straight blade, flys in the face of any books I have seen on this subject.
Elgood, Tirri and Cameron Stone among others, all describe these STRAIGHT bladed Omani swords as KATTARA.
In fact Ibrahiim himself in his preamble regarding Omani swords which appears on his website, describes them as Kattara.
While a lot of useful information on these swords has been written on other threads currently live on this Forum, I personally feel that things are now getting rather confusing to those who are trying to learn by reading what has been written.
If there is some CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the correct name, then let it be published here.
Regards Stuart

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I read with interest Ibrahiim's latest conclusion that the Omani Kattara is in fact not a Kattara at all, but in fact is a Sayf. His opinion is that the term Kattara is used to describe a curved blade sword and not one with a straight blade, flys in the face of any books I have seen on this subject.
Elgood, Tirri and Cameron Stone among others, all describe these STRAIGHT bladed Omani swords as KATTARA.
In fact Ibrahiim himself in his preamble regarding Omani swords which appears on his website, describes them as Kattara.
While a lot of useful information on these swords has been written on other threads currently live on this Forum, I personally feel that things are now getting rather confusing to those who are trying to learn by reading what has been written.
If there is some CONCLUSIVE PROOF of the correct name, then let it be published here.
Regards Stuart

Salaams,

Proof is from Muscat National Museum, The Bait al Zubair Museum Muscat, The Historical Association Of Oman, Richardson and Dorr Omani Craft Herritage Documentation Project, Abu Dhabi Cultural Heritage Centre and last but not least This forums TVV Thread kattara for Comment # 155 and following months of in depth research into the subject where even I was at loggaheads with the authorised documents when in fact it is the earlier books that are wrong for what it is worth... though it isn't actually worth much... as we all know the naming, altering and swinging names from one area to another are at best a puzzle and at worst a nightmare...I mean for example ~ Try to define what is a Tulvar??...or a Katar Dagger? Those great book makers you mention never actually entered Oman in or during the critical last few hundred years. Even in the 1950s it was dangerous to travel here... Thesiger was under threat of death after WW2 on his patrol through the sands and in the Nizwa area in about 1948 he was hunted..Perhaps they copied each others terminology. It wouldnt be the first time.

At any rate~ in our case we seem to have adjusted the picture quite well no?

Thank you for spotting that I haven't corrected my webpage yet ... that can wait a day or two... Forum First !

I mean what could be simpler than Straight is Sayf and Curved is Kattara ?

Ibrahiim

[kahnjar1]

Salaams Ibrahiim.

Thank you for that information. We must of course bow to the (better) knowledge from establishments in the "country of origin".
No doubt in collectors circles the name KATTARA will continue to be used to describe the straight Omani sword, as perhaps the term "Wahabite" is often used to describe the Dharia daggers of Western Arabia.

Perhaps with all the information now assembled, it could be worth writing a small book on the subject, which could be made available at a reasonable price to those interested. Certainly with the wealth of writing on this subject, which has appeared on the Forum, it would maybe only take some editing to get things into a publishable form??

If such a book were to appear, I for one would certainly buy a copy.

Regards Stu

[Jim McDougall]

This is absolutely excellent work Ibrahiim, and your tenacious field research is moving in an astoundingly compelling direction in resolving the terminology issues pertaining to these particular swords.
There are many dilemmas concerning terms used to identify and classify many ethnographic weapons, and it is good to see at least this area being addressed. It seems there are well supported details here which offer good reason to recognize the term application.....but as we have found over the years, quite another story to realign terms used by collectors and even in most cases scholars.
Many terms have become thoroughly established semantically in the literature, and as a result the corrected term can often lead to difficulty in interpretation in discussions and subsequent material.

This does not by any means diminish the importance of the resolution in correcting the terms, and hopefully further work will reflect as per the realigned terms.

I think case in point are the katar, which should be called the jamadhar; the kaskara, which is actually known simply as sa'if locally, as are many swords in the Dar al Islam, where the term sa'if is applied in general to various sword forms. In Morocco, the sabre which has been mistermed 'nimcha' as typically known as a sa'if. I think these are more cases of transliteration, but again, have become so firmly established it will be difficult to realign.

Excellent work Ibrahiim!! and absolutely must be continued!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams Ibrahiim.

Thank you for that information. We must of course bow to the (better) knowledge from establishments in the "country of origin".
No doubt in collectors circles the name KATTARA will continue to be used to describe the straight Omani sword, as perhaps the term "Wahabite" is often used to describe the Dharia daggers of Western Arabia.

Perhaps with all the information now assembled, it could be worth writing a small book on the subject, which could be made available at a reasonable price to those interested. Certainly with the wealth of writing on this subject, which has appeared on the Forum, it would maybe only take some editing to get things into a publishable form??

If such a book were to appear, I for one would certainly buy a copy.

Regards Stu

Excellent points Stu!!! and I totally agree! a monograph with these kinds of details would be much appreciated in the arms world, and there is indeed a wealth of knowledge and material shared here. I'd be right with ya in line!

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is absolutely excellent work Ibrahiim, and your tenacious field research is moving in an astoundingly compelling direction in resolving the terminology issues pertaining to these particular swords.
There are many dilemmas concerning terms used to identify and classify many ethnographic weapons, and it is good to see at least this area being addressed. It seems there are well supported details here which offer good reason to recognize the term application.....but as we have found over the years, quite another story to realign terms used by collectors and even in most cases scholars.
Many terms have become thoroughly established semantically in the literature, and as a result the corrected term can often lead to difficulty in interpretation in discussions and subsequent material.

This does not by any means diminish the importance of the resolution in correcting the terms, and hopefully further work will reflect as per the realigned terms.

I think case in point are the katar, which should be called the jamadhar; the kaskara, which is actually known simply as sa'if locally, as are many swords in the Dar al Islam, where the term sa'if is applied in general to various sword forms. In Morocco, the sabre which has been mistermed 'nimcha' as typically known as a sa'if. I think these are more cases of transliteration, but again, have become so firmly established it will be difficult to realign.

Excellent work Ibrahiim!! and absolutely must be continued!!!

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, Thank you for the kind words. Constructive criticism; I love it ! Going forward using the data so far extracted I think we have a good chance to put some perspective around this entire connundrum on Omani Swords. I hope we can bring some of the viewers on board to actively contribute and other already Forum members who havent written in...can be encouraged to dig up the references or carry out some web searching so we can engage everyone in discussion. It must have been shocking in the early days before computers! A letter in 1811 to India from Muscat would take a few weeks to arrive and twice as long to come back. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.