residue of Yoruba sword

Martin Lubojacky · 25th February 2010, 02:20 PM

The hilt is made of brass or copper, and my opinion is old European saber blade was utilized. Comming from Ibadan

katana · 25th February 2010, 11:10 PM

Although the Yoruba have close ties with the Kingdoms of Benin....I would say that the hilt is likely, more specifically, of Benin origin, judging by the atire of the 'warrior'.
I haven't seen a figural hilt on a sword from this region before....interesting

Regards David

Martin Lubojacky · 26th February 2010, 09:12 AM

I have also never seen figural hilt here before. I think it could be some "untraditional" modification. How old could it be ? Presently they do not produce so small figures with such details, like on this figure, so I hope - maybe 19th century ? I still did not clean it. Usually I used to put the item together with aliminium plates into the water solution of sodium carbonate corrosion to be removed during electrolytical reaction (the brass/copper keeps dark "patina" at the same time), but I have some doubts if it is still possible to determine the age of the items by chromatographical analysis of patina - after such treatment.
Regards,
Martin

katana · 26th February 2010, 03:09 PM

Hi Martin,
I would think that only laboratory 'tests' could determine the age of the hilt. Bronze and brass seem to be 'easily' aged using chemicals, although I believe the patination produced is only 'surface deep'. The hilt, if genuinely old, has not been regulary handled as there are no 'wear marks' in the patina. The overall condition seems to suggest that it has been in a damp environment, buried in the ground perhaps. But whether this was done to artifically age it or is genuine patina would be hard to assess from pictures.
I've always liked the Benin bronze work.....notice my Avatar

Hopefully Tim may add some thoughts....he has excellent knowledge of 'metal casting' and African artifacts.

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 26th February 2010, 05:42 PM

David you are too kind.

It certainly appears to be a sword blade that one would think was very old. Benin/Yoruba staff and sceptre do have cast figure handles. This perhaps may have been use for parade? I am not an expert but do have doubts about the age of the handle. It looks as though it has been underground and made to look old with chemical treatment also corroding the blade. I do not think the modelling of the figure is good enough for a high status or court object of the 19th century. Looking through the grime it is remarkably fresh. I have this early? 20th century Nigerian piece.

katana · 26th February 2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

David you are too kind.

It certainly appears to be a sword blade that one would think was very old. Benin/Yoruba staff and sceptre do have cast figure handles. This perhaps may have been use for parade? I am not an expert but do have doubts about the age of the handle. It looks as though it has been underground and made to look old with chemical treatment also corroding the blade. I do not think the modelling of the figure is good enough for a high status or court object of the 19th century. Looking through the grime it is remarkably fresh. I have this early? 20th century Nigerian piece.

Hi Tim,
you're too modest ....credit where credit is due, Tim.

Hi Martin,
this article is interesting reading ....may help in 'aging' the hilt......

http://www.authenticafricanbronzesandceramics.com/

All the best
David

Martin Lubojacky · 27th February 2010, 11:50 PM

David and Tim, thank you very much for your comments. Because of circumstances under the which the item was acquired I am nearly convinced it was not produced to be sold to tourists. But, surely, local maket is full of "Benin" figures (and also "ada" choppers) patinated artificially, but this "patina" is usually nearly black and smooth, with imitation of glossy (exserted) places -"caused by touching". Thanks for the web site, I will do my best to arrange analysis, but it will take some time.
Regards,
Martin

Martin Lubojacky · 19th April 2010, 11:22 AM

So - I am back - and with sad news. I sent samples of patina/corrosion to Europe (specialised chemical laboratory recommended by David -see http://www.authenticafricanbronzesandceramics.com/). After the chemical analysis the verdikt is definite. This my item is a big fake, patinated and aged arificially

Regards,
Martin

katana · 19th April 2010, 11:47 AM

Hi Martin,
sorry to hear the news .....I'm disappointed for you

Regards David

25th February 2010, 02:20 PM	#1
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	residue of Yoruba sword The hilt is made of brass or copper, and my opinion is old European saber blade was utilized. Comming from Ibadan Attached Images

26th February 2010, 05:42 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	David you are too kind. It certainly appears to be a sword blade that one would think was very old. Benin/Yoruba staff and sceptre do have cast figure handles. This perhaps may have been use for parade? I am not an expert but do have doubts about the age of the handle. It looks as though it has been underground and made to look old with chemical treatment also corroding the blade. I do not think the modelling of the figure is good enough for a high status or court object of the 19th century. Looking through the grime it is remarkably fresh. I have this early? 20th century Nigerian piece. Attached Images

25th February 2010, 11:10 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Although the Yoruba have close ties with the Kingdoms of Benin....I would say that the hilt is likely, more specifically, of Benin origin, judging by the atire of the 'warrior'. I haven't seen a figural hilt on a sword from this region before....interesting Regards David

26th February 2010, 09:12 AM	#3
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	I have also never seen figural hilt here before. I think it could be some "untraditional" modification. How old could it be ? Presently they do not produce so small figures with such details, like on this figure, so I hope - maybe 19th century ? I still did not clean it. Usually I used to put the item together with aliminium plates into the water solution of sodium carbonate corrosion to be removed during electrolytical reaction (the brass/copper keeps dark "patina" at the same time), but I have some doubts if it is still possible to determine the age of the items by chromatographical analysis of patina - after such treatment. Regards, Martin

26th February 2010, 03:09 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Martin, I would think that only laboratory 'tests' could determine the age of the hilt. Bronze and brass seem to be 'easily' aged using chemicals, although I believe the patination produced is only 'surface deep'. The hilt, if genuinely old, has not been regulary handled as there are no 'wear marks' in the patina. The overall condition seems to suggest that it has been in a damp environment, buried in the ground perhaps. But whether this was done to artifically age it or is genuine patina would be hard to assess from pictures. I've always liked the Benin bronze work.....notice my Avatar Hopefully Tim may add some thoughts....he has excellent knowledge of 'metal casting' and African artifacts. Regards David

27th February 2010, 11:50 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	David and Tim, thank you very much for your comments. Because of circumstances under the which the item was acquired I am nearly convinced it was not produced to be sold to tourists. But, surely, local maket is full of "Benin" figures (and also "ada" choppers) patinated artificially, but this "patina" is usually nearly black and smooth, with imitation of glossy (exserted) places -"caused by touching". Thanks for the web site, I will do my best to arrange analysis, but it will take some time. Regards, Martin

19th April 2010, 11:22 AM	#8
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	So - I am back - and with sad news. I sent samples of patina/corrosion to Europe (specialised chemical laboratory recommended by David -see http://www.authenticafricanbronzesandceramics.com/). After the chemical analysis the verdikt is definite. This my item is a big fake, patinated and aged arificially Regards, Martin

19th April 2010, 11:47 AM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Martin, sorry to hear the news .....I'm disappointed for you Regards David