Gold Inlay on Ottoman Pala (just closed on eBay)

ALEX · 13th February 2010, 06:44 PM

A nice looking Kilij, but looking closely - is the inlay just... "too good to be true":-) I mean it is "true" inlay, BUT... is it authentic/old, or late copy. somehow I have a sceptical feeling about it, as well as the form and chemically-induced appearance of the "pattern"...

ALEX · 13th February 2010, 06:47 PM

Here is a closeup of the cartouche, and another, from another Kilij which also just closed on eBay. The appearance and execution are strikingly similar. The lines are even and clean. Coincidence???

erlikhan · 13th February 2010, 06:47 PM

Alex, I am a minute faster than you.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11460

All parts of this sword are completely new production.

ariel · 13th February 2010, 06:54 PM

On a russian sword site somebody is showing a series of palas from Syria, currently offered to him in a hush-hush, very private and special deal. Stories of grandfathers abound.
All of them are virtually identical to this one, with different blade decorations ( all shiny new, of course), repaired crossguards and bulbous handles that are just... not quite!
Well,finally Syria joined the antique arms race:-)

ALEX · 13th February 2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

Alex, I am a minute faster than you.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11460

All parts of this sword are completely new production.

Thanks again, Erlikhan. It's nice of you to share your findings and observations.
I must admit - Damascus is improving the quality of its work... in terms of the last several years:-) :-)
Ariel, thanks for a nice, and as usually funny note:-) Should we expect a new wootz production center to reopen there soon? :-)

erlikhan · 13th February 2010, 07:25 PM

You're welcome Alex

.In fact Syria has always been right in the middle of antique arms race. They started with silver scabbards and hilts for old Turkish and Persian dagger blades. Continued with yataghan scabbards.Then they realized that producing their own cars instead of just having repair and assembly industry would bring more surplus value. Anybody willing to support them by buying their swords? It would please them more than just sending admiration messages. So that they will get motivated for better creations, and will have more funds to use in R&D

kronckew · 13th February 2010, 07:50 PM

they could do with a few nice fullers, and the grips are a bit crude for the price.

erlikhan · 13th February 2010, 10:30 PM

The worst mistake is they dont bother themselves forging thinner,lighter and sharper blades. They would and could certainly correct those mistakes if they aimed to sell these swords at 3000 usd on ebay directly to collectioners. But these are produced and brought for much less amounts of money from Syria to foreign dealers who are aware these are new. It is dealers' guilt to sell them so expensive online as if they are gorgeous antique swords. I asked the seller if he is aware or not that this sword is new but he didnt respond.

Warren McQ · 14th February 2010, 05:20 PM

I've dealt with this seller in the past and everything I bought from him is the real deal so far. I hope this is just a mistake.

ariel · 14th February 2010, 06:27 PM

I do not think the seller does it on purpose: he is not from Syria ( is he?).
Must have gotten it somewhere cheap and just making profit.
It is the manufacturer who is the danger to the collectors' community.

ALEX · 14th February 2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... It is the manufacturer who is the danger to the collectors' community.

Ariel, I think there are many, or at least some few, artists/manufacturers who do great work and take pride in their traditions. Like Sandeep from India, who does fantastic coftgari work, and sells his product honestly and with no misrepresentation. There are a few in the Middle East (and elsewhere), honest restorers and dealers, and they should get their well deserved respect and recognition.
In this particular case, however, it was the dealer who claimed the item to be 18th - 19th Century, so should be totally liable IMHO.

13th February 2010, 06:44 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Gold Inlay on Ottoman Pala (just closed on eBay) A nice looking Kilij, but looking closely - is the inlay just... "too good to be true":-) I mean it is "true" inlay, BUT... is it authentic/old, or late copy. somehow I have a sceptical feeling about it, as well as the form and chemically-induced appearance of the "pattern"... Attached Images

13th February 2010, 06:47 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Here is a closeup of the cartouche, and another, from another Kilij which also just closed on eBay. The appearance and execution are strikingly similar. The lines are even and clean. Coincidence??? Attached Images

13th February 2010, 06:47 PM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Alex, I am a minute faster than you. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11460 All parts of this sword are completely new production.

13th February 2010, 06:54 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	On a russian sword site somebody is showing a series of palas from Syria, currently offered to him in a hush-hush, very private and special deal. Stories of grandfathers abound. All of them are virtually identical to this one, with different blade decorations ( all shiny new, of course), repaired crossguards and bulbous handles that are just... not quite! Well,finally Syria joined the antique arms race:-)

13th February 2010, 07:25 PM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	You're welcome Alex .In fact Syria has always been right in the middle of antique arms race. They started with silver scabbards and hilts for old Turkish and Persian dagger blades. Continued with yataghan scabbards.Then they realized that producing their own cars instead of just having repair and assembly industry would bring more surplus value. Anybody willing to support them by buying their swords? It would please them more than just sending admiration messages. So that they will get motivated for better creations, and will have more funds to use in R&D

13th February 2010, 07:50 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,205	they could do with a few nice fullers, and the grips are a bit crude for the price.

13th February 2010, 10:30 PM	#8
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	The worst mistake is they dont bother themselves forging thinner,lighter and sharper blades. They would and could certainly correct those mistakes if they aimed to sell these swords at 3000 usd on ebay directly to collectioners. But these are produced and brought for much less amounts of money from Syria to foreign dealers who are aware these are new. It is dealers' guilt to sell them so expensive online as if they are gorgeous antique swords. I asked the seller if he is aware or not that this sword is new but he didnt respond.

14th February 2010, 05:20 PM	#9
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	I've dealt with this seller in the past and everything I bought from him is the real deal so far. I hope this is just a mistake.

14th February 2010, 06:27 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not think the seller does it on purpose: he is not from Syria ( is he?). Must have gotten it somewhere cheap and just making profit. It is the manufacturer who is the danger to the collectors' community.