Sheath symbolism, does the concept of pamor extend also too wooden patterns?

milandro · 18th March 2022, 11:09 AM

This is in all probability a rookie question and of course, please be gentle. I am here to learn.

I have bought a small kris lately mostly on account of its warangka, gandar and ukiran. They look very slik and smooth.

The blade has yet to reveal its secrets since it is rather rusty and otherwise the pamor which is just faintly showing under the layers caused by years of neglect seems to be one of few ( can’t say how many) wavy parallel lines , length-wise on a 9 luk fairly small kris.

Again this was said to have been brought back by a Dutch soldier after the independence war.

Another thing is that , and I only found out when I received it although I did have some idea that it may be so from the not so detailed pictures that were provided from the seller. this is my first kris (although I knew that they existed) where the hilt is secured in place by human hair.

My question is whether the pattern of the wood has equal symbolic significance and can be “ read” in this light ( pamor pattern) accordingly?

The pattern resembles what , if it was a blade may be “ Gajah Gelaar”.

I have added a mendak ( not shown these are the pics the seller put to me) and will have the blade cleaned and etched at a later time.

David · 18th March 2022, 05:32 PM

Seems a good question to me Milandro.

I think i would hesitate to say that such patterns in the wood are on a "equal" footing with pamor patterns in terms of significance and importance. The blade is always central to any keris regarding such things. But certain wood patterns are indeed highly prized and do hold a certain protective status.
Here is an example from my collection that displays what is known as "Dwi Roh" motif on the gandar of the sheath. This means "Two Spirit" and refers to the two ghostly faces that can be interpreted in the timoho wood of the gandar. This is a rare motif that is considered to be a protective device. In this case this motif was considered important enough to preserve and was fitted to a newer top sheath (gambar) of kayu jati gembol (burl teak).
I am not sure how the vertical Adeg lines of your gandar should be interpreted, but probably not in the same way as when we see such a pattern as pamor in a keris. We tend to see the horizontal lines that appear on your gambar more often. But it is probably fair to assume that they are deemed as protect devices in some way or another.

milandro · 18th March 2022, 05:50 PM

very beautiful and absolutely “ spooky” image on the Gambar (or Gandar as I’ve hears it called over here).

Of course the blade or wilah is central , however since it is someone’s choice how to dress it , I thought there may been some similarities
.

Incidentally one of my krises has also an “ image” in the blade resembling (to me, others don’t see that) one of a skull or something like a face, probably not more than the shape that one sees in the clouds, yet, what the augurs saw in anything which they used to predict the future was also probably something of this nature.

David · 18th March 2022, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

very beautiful and absolutely “ spooky” image on the Gambar (or Gandar as I’ve hears it called over here).

Reread what i wrote Milandro. The "gandar" of the sheath is the stem piece as i have correctly noted, where the Dwi Rho motif is situated. The "gambar" is the "boat" aspect of the wrongko. It was that part of the sheath that i called the "gambar" in my post.

When we see figures or faces in pamor patterns these are generally unplanned events and considered to be talismanic and powerful because they are "Acts of God". It is called pamor Raja Guntala. These pamors can have different significances dependent upon what they seem to depict. Never heard of them being used to predict the future though.

David · 18th March 2022, 07:44 PM

I will add that sometimes the choice of specific patterns in choice woods might be done simply for decorative purposes. Here is another example from my collection of wood grain that seems to be positioned to match the pamor pattern on the bottom of the gonjo. I don't believe this was done with any esoteric intention in mind, but rather to create a more complex ensemble feel.
It will be interesting to see what pamor pattern hides underneath the rust in your blade. If it turns out to be an adeg pamor there might be some connection to why the vertical lined wood was chosen for your gandar. Though more often than not i believe that people were more inclined not to want to reveal what pamor lies within their sheath, so maybe showing it publicly on the surface of the sheath would not be a popular idea.

milandro · 18th March 2022, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Reread what i wrote Milandro. The "gandar" of the sheath is the stem piece as i have correctly noted, where the Dwi Rho motif is situated. The "gambar" is the "boat" aspect of the wrongko. It was that part of the sheath that i called the "gambar" in my post.

When we see figures or faces in pamor patterns these are generally unplanned events and considered to be talismanic and powerful because they are "Acts of God". It is called pamor Raja Guntala. These pamors can have different significances dependent upon what they seem to depict. Never heard of them being used to predict the future though.

thank you for the correction,

, I will add it to my lexicon. I though it was something like Warangka-Wrongko thing.

I did'n mean to say that there was any “ divination “ associated to the Indonesian symbolism but that in general in many cultures in the world, people look at “ shapes ” in things and attribute a meaning to that whether propitiatory, apotropaic or in some cases divinatory but I didn’t refer specifically to this happening in Indonesia.

A. G. Maisey · 18th March 2022, 10:12 PM

On the "warangka-wrongko" thing, this is the same word, just different ways of spelling it, I guess something similar to the way in which word spellings in English can can differ from place to place, and maybe for a similar reason, the variant spellings reflect the actual spoken sound.

The "a" sound in warangka/wrangka/rangka is pronounced very close to an "o", so the word becomes worongko/wrongko/rongko.

That "o" sound being substituted for an "a" is perhaps down to English language keyboards, in old days the sound was represented by an "a" with a dot over it, these days you can only tell the difference between a dotted "a" and an undotted "a" by learning the language.

But in Bahasa Indonesia, "warangka" will correctly be pronounced as it is written, the "a" is an "a".

18th March 2022, 11:09 AM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 477	Sheath symbolism, does the concept of pamor extend also too wooden sheath patterns? This is in all probability a rookie question and of course, please be gentle. I am here to learn. I have bought a small kris lately mostly on account of its warangka, gandar and ukiran. They look very slik and smooth. The blade has yet to reveal its secrets since it is rather rusty and otherwise the pamor which is just faintly showing under the layers caused by years of neglect seems to be one of few ( can’t say how many) wavy parallel lines , length-wise on a 9 luk fairly small kris. Again this was said to have been brought back by a Dutch soldier after the independence war. Another thing is that , and I only found out when I received it although I did have some idea that it may be so from the not so detailed pictures that were provided from the seller. this is my first kris (although I knew that they existed) where the hilt is secured in place by human hair. My question is whether the pattern of the wood has equal symbolic significance and can be “ read” in this light ( pamor pattern) accordingly? The pattern resembles what , if it was a blade may be “ Gajah Gelaar”. I have added a mendak ( not shown these are the pics the seller put to me) and will have the blade cleaned and etched at a later time. Attached Images Last edited by milandro; 18th March 2022 at 12:40 PM.

18th March 2022, 05:32 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,126	Seems a good question to me Milandro. I think i would hesitate to say that such patterns in the wood are on a "equal" footing with pamor patterns in terms of significance and importance. The blade is always central to any keris regarding such things. But certain wood patterns are indeed highly prized and do hold a certain protective status. Here is an example from my collection that displays what is known as "Dwi Roh" motif on the gandar of the sheath. This means "Two Spirit" and refers to the two ghostly faces that can be interpreted in the timoho wood of the gandar. This is a rare motif that is considered to be a protective device. In this case this motif was considered important enough to preserve and was fitted to a newer top sheath (gambar) of kayu jati gembol (burl teak). I am not sure how the vertical Adeg lines of your gandar should be interpreted, but probably not in the same way as when we see such a pattern as pamor in a keris. We tend to see the horizontal lines that appear on your gambar more often. But it is probably fair to assume that they are deemed as protect devices in some way or another. Attached Images

18th March 2022, 07:44 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,126	I will add that sometimes the choice of specific patterns in choice woods might be done simply for decorative purposes. Here is another example from my collection of wood grain that seems to be positioned to match the pamor pattern on the bottom of the gonjo. I don't believe this was done with any esoteric intention in mind, but rather to create a more complex ensemble feel. It will be interesting to see what pamor pattern hides underneath the rust in your blade. If it turns out to be an adeg pamor there might be some connection to why the vertical lined wood was chosen for your gandar. Though more often than not i believe that people were more inclined not to want to reveal what pamor lies within their sheath, so maybe showing it publicly on the surface of the sheath would not be a popular idea. Attached Images

18th March 2022, 05:50 PM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 477	very beautiful and absolutely “ spooky” image on the Gambar (or Gandar as I’ve hears it called over here). Of course the blade or wilah is central , however since it is someone’s choice how to dress it , I thought there may been some similarities . Incidentally one of my krises has also an “ image” in the blade resembling (to me, others don’t see that) one of a skull or something like a face, probably not more than the shape that one sees in the clouds, yet, what the augurs saw in anything which they used to predict the future was also probably something of this nature.

18th March 2022, 10:12 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	On the "warangka-wrongko" thing, this is the same word, just different ways of spelling it, I guess something similar to the way in which word spellings in English can can differ from place to place, and maybe for a similar reason, the variant spellings reflect the actual spoken sound. The "a" sound in warangka/wrangka/rangka is pronounced very close to an "o", so the word becomes worongko/wrongko/rongko. That "o" sound being substituted for an "a" is perhaps down to English language keyboards, in old days the sound was represented by an "a" with a dot over it, these days you can only tell the difference between a dotted "a" and an undotted "a" by learning the language. But in Bahasa Indonesia, "warangka" will correctly be pronounced as it is written, the "a" is an "a".