SURPRISE! Wootz Steel in a Most Unexpected Place!...An Aceh Podang/Peudueng

[scinde]

Hi Ariel,

Thanks for reply. I basic terms I was aware of the fact that the surface of the blade must be etched to reveal the grain structure however, the main thrust of my question was in relation to how the blade should be prepared for etching, and what chemicals or agents should be used to etch the metal.

Gordon

[TVV]

Originally Posted by scinde

Hi Ariel,

Thanks for reply. I basic terms I was aware of the fact that the surface of the blade must be etched to reveal the grain structure however, the main thrust of my question was in relation to how the blade should be prepared for etching, and what chemicals or agents should be used to etch the metal.

Gordon

These are good questions, and a forum search will probably show at least several threads that explain the materials and the process. For someone like me, who has no advanced knowledge of chemistry, the following have worked:
- Clean the blade with soap and water and dry it out, then clean it again with alcohol to remove any residue of dirt, wax, oil or whatever may have been applied to it in the past;
- Dilute wine vinegar in warm water in 1:4 ratio of vinegar to water;
- Use the mild acid to dip the blade into and leave for half an hour, then check for a pattern, or, if the blade is too long and you do not have an appropriate size container, rub in the acid and see if a pattern starts to appear.

There are other acids, which would probably produce better results, but vinegar is easy to obtain and not really dangerous (no toxic fumes and if you get it on yourself, you won't be harmed), which is why I have opted for it.

Sincerely,
Teodor

[Sajen]

Difficult question, some people etch with vinegar like Teodor describe, others use only Ferrichlorid but there are various other etching agents. Most of the time collectors swear by their technic as only good one.
I think that different steel react better with one or the other. And it depend on the wished result.
I personally etch as well with vinegar similar as described in up but heat the etchant and blade, the reaction is faster and deeper.

Of course you get better results when the blade is fine polished and free from rust so far possible.

Regards,
Detlef

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by scinde

Hi,

Quite new to this group, and not exactly a reply, but I would appreciate knowing the best method or process of testing a blade, to establish whether it is patterned or just plain. Thanks in advance.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

a cheap and simple way to test a blade is to hold it under hot running water (must be hot enough, to burn your hand). If it is mechanical damascus, one can recognize the structure clearly after a few seconds.

Roland

[scinde]

Originally Posted by TVV

These are good questions, and a forum search will probably show at least several threads that explain the materials and the process. For someone like me, who has no advanced knowledge of chemistry, the following have worked:
- Clean the blade with soap and water and dry it out, then clean it again with alcohol to remove any residue of dirt, wax, oil or whatever may have been applied to it in the past;
- Dilute wine vinegar in warm water in 1:4 ratio of vinegar to water;
- Use the mild acid to dip the blade into and leave for half an hour, then check for a pattern, or, if the blade is too long and you do not have an appropriate size container, rub in the acid and see if a pattern starts to appear.

There are other acids, which would probably produce better results, but vinegar is easy to obtain and not really dangerous (no toxic fumes and if you get it on yourself, you won't be harmed), which is why I have opted for it.

Sincerely,
Teodor

Hi Teador,

Thanks very much, that's good information, and as you say quite safe. Not possible to use a container, so I'll opt for applying the solution by hand.

I appreciate your assistance.

Gordon

[scinde]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Difficult question, some people etch with vinegar like Teodor describe, others use only Ferrichlorid but there are various other etching agents. Most of the time collectors swear by their technic as only good one.
I think that different steel react better with one or the other. And it depend on the wished result.
I personally etch as well with vinegar similar as described in up but heat the etchant and blade, the reaction is faster and deeper.

Of course you get better results when the blade is fine polished and free from rust so far possible.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Delef,

Many thanks to you also, and I do understand what you say as regards the temperature of the object and etchant; I'll opt for vinegar and see what appears if anything??

Regards,

Gordon

[scinde]

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hi Gordon,

a cheap and simple way to test a blade is to hold it under hot running water (must be hot enough, to burn your hand). If it is mechanical damascus, one can recognize the structure clearly after a few seconds.

Roland

Hi Roland,

Very interesting and helpful; it seems a combination of heating the blade with hot water and applying the vinegar solution will produce the desired result if there's anything to be seen.

Thanks for this additional information.

Regards,

Gordon

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by TVV

- Clean the blade with soap and water and dry it out, then clean it again with alcohol to remove any residue of dirt, wax, oil or whatever may have been applied to it in the past;
- Dilute wine vinegar in warm water in 1:4 ratio of vinegar to water;
- Use the mild acid to dip the blade into and leave for half an hour, then check for a pattern, or, if the blade is too long and you do not have an appropriate size container, rub in the acid and see if a pattern starts to appear.

There are other acids, which would probably produce better results, but vinegar is easy to obtain and not really dangerous (no toxic fumes and if you get it on yourself, you won't be harmed), which is why I have opted for it.

1) Have you tried acetone as a cleaner? Or is there a downside or chemical reaction I haven't anticipated?

2)Why dilute the acid? It is only 5 or 7% to begin with? Is this to increase the working time? IF you are doing the brush on method, would you leave it undiluted?

[gp]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

1) Have you tried acetone as a cleaner? Or is there a downside or chemical reaction I haven't anticipated?

I was just thinking the same; a professional arms restorer ( to several museums) did advise me the same regarding my collection:
to clean use first acetone and secondly renaissance wax.

My experence: it does work excellently on my yataghans, bichaqs and few Indonesian cold weapons I do have.

[Ren Ren]

I am impressed! This is one of two amazing swords from Aceh that I have seen!

The first sword I saw had the original old English mark under languet .