Wootz kindjal - have you ever seen?

chregu · 27th March 2010, 11:44 PM

hello together
theodor believe me, I know wootz.
've Already seen from other Kindjal and Kamma wootz. It is rare but not impossible. They all had one thing in common they were of the same style.
I guess South Caucasus. Greeting Chregu

TVV · 28th March 2010, 06:15 AM

Alex,

When you compare your blade to mine and chregu's, you can clearly see the difference. Yours is wootz, no doubt. Ours on the other hand, look quite different on closer inspection and I still think they are pattern welded.

Teodor

ALEX · 28th March 2010, 08:02 AM

Teodor,
Yes, there are differences in pattern between them. Nevertheless, the difference are in wootz pattern type in my opinion.

Could it be Russian i.e. Anosov's wootz? Attached is a closeup of allegedly Zlatoust produced wootz shashka blade. There are similarities to your patterns, but still - I do not think these are typical pattern welds.

Ariel, Rick what do you think?

RSWORD · 28th March 2010, 02:43 PM

Alex,

I agree with your assessment of all 3 blades. I think Chegru's is wootz and I think TVV's first example is a nice wootz. The 3rd example is definitely not wootz.

buendia · 31st March 2010, 03:30 PM

Thank you very much for your help. I have found a picture of shear steel from Sheffield - a fragment of a chisel.

This one comes from Hermitage museum in Petersburg, Russia. Wootz kindjal made by Geurk Elizarashvili, 1846, Tiflis, Georgia. The very same guy probably made Lermontov`s kindjal...

TVV · 1st April 2010, 07:01 AM

Personally, I would not be disappointed at all if it turns out to be wootz (naturally). But bladesmiths that I have shown the dagger to tend to think otherwise. Their opinion of course is just that - an opinion, and the opinion of collectors such as Rick and Alex, who have handled a great number of wootz blades is probably more important here.

As of now, I am not convinced one way or another, but it does not really bother me, since to me a nice blade is a nice blade, wootz or pattern welded.

Regards,
Teodor

28th March 2010, 08:02 AM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Teodor, Yes, there are differences in pattern between them. Nevertheless, the difference are in wootz pattern type in my opinion. Could it be Russian i.e. Anosov's wootz? Attached is a closeup of allegedly Zlatoust produced wootz shashka blade. There are similarities to your patterns, but still - I do not think these are typical pattern welds. Ariel, Rick what do you think? Attached Images

27th March 2010, 11:44 PM	#1
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hello together theodor believe me, I know wootz. 've Already seen from other Kindjal and Kamma wootz. It is rare but not impossible. They all had one thing in common they were of the same style. I guess South Caucasus. Greeting Chregu

28th March 2010, 06:15 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Alex, When you compare your blade to mine and chregu's, you can clearly see the difference. Yours is wootz, no doubt. Ours on the other hand, look quite different on closer inspection and I still think they are pattern welded. Teodor

28th March 2010, 02:43 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	Alex, I agree with your assessment of all 3 blades. I think Chegru's is wootz and I think TVV's first example is a nice wootz. The 3rd example is definitely not wootz.

31st March 2010, 03:30 PM	#5
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Thank you very much for your help. I have found a picture of shear steel from Sheffield - a fragment of a chisel. This one comes from Hermitage museum in Petersburg, Russia. Wootz kindjal made by Geurk Elizarashvili, 1846, Tiflis, Georgia. The very same guy probably made Lermontov`s kindjal...

1st April 2010, 07:01 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Personally, I would not be disappointed at all if it turns out to be wootz (naturally). But bladesmiths that I have shown the dagger to tend to think otherwise. Their opinion of course is just that - an opinion, and the opinion of collectors such as Rick and Alex, who have handled a great number of wootz blades is probably more important here. As of now, I am not convinced one way or another, but it does not really bother me, since to me a nice blade is a nice blade, wootz or pattern welded. Regards, Teodor