Wootz kindjal - have you ever seen?

buendia · 26th March 2010, 01:43 AM

Thank you for this wonderful information.
I found out that in 1837 a ship with British weopons for Circassian rebels was intercepted by Russian fleet.
Maybe some some tool made of shear steel was reforged into kindjal?
Somewhere here I saw photos of a chisel made of Sheffield shear steel compared to some Sham type of wootz, and there was some reference to Itame I think...

IMO it`s almost impossible to differentiate them for a non-specialist.
Maybe Lermontov considered the English shear steel as a Sham pattern?
007 scenario - I know, but maybe?

ariel · 26th March 2010, 12:00 PM

According to Ann Feuerbach, she found 2 wootz blades dating back to ~8th century in the North Caucasus. No need to invoke British shear steel.

Also, "caucasians" had contacts with India and Persia well before Brits had a navy and Russia was an empire :-)

chregu · 26th March 2010, 10:56 PM

My example of Wootzklinge.
These Kindjal I found a few years ago at a secondhand shop.
Greeting chregu

TVV · 27th March 2010, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chregu

My example of Wootzklinge.
These Kindjal I found a few years ago at a secondhand shop.
Greeting chregu

Chregu,

I have a very similar kindjal to yours, with the same pattern on the blade. At first glance, it does resemble wootz, but I do not think it is. In my opinion, these are fine pattern welded blades.

I am also attaching pictures of the blade of another kindjal, which could be sham wootz, or sheer steel, not sure.

Regards,
Teodor

ALEX · 27th March 2010, 08:41 AM

Interesting conversation,
Would be great to hear other opinions on whether these blades are pattern welded, sheer steel or wootz? The pattern on Chregu blade does not look mechanical to me, neither on Teodor's first blade, I think they are wootz. Teodor's second blade might be sham or sheer. I attach similar closeup of mine, and it is undoubtedly (Persian) wootz.

chregu · 27th March 2010, 11:44 PM

hello together
theodor believe me, I know wootz.
've Already seen from other Kindjal and Kamma wootz. It is rare but not impossible. They all had one thing in common they were of the same style.
I guess South Caucasus. Greeting Chregu

TVV · 28th March 2010, 06:15 AM

Alex,

When you compare your blade to mine and chregu's, you can clearly see the difference. Yours is wootz, no doubt. Ours on the other hand, look quite different on closer inspection and I still think they are pattern welded.

Teodor

26th March 2010, 10:56 PM	#3
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	My example of Wootzklinge. These Kindjal I found a few years ago at a secondhand shop. Greeting chregu Attached Images

27th March 2010, 08:41 AM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Interesting conversation, Would be great to hear other opinions on whether these blades are pattern welded, sheer steel or wootz? The pattern on Chregu blade does not look mechanical to me, neither on Teodor's first blade, I think they are wootz. Teodor's second blade might be sham or sheer. I attach similar closeup of mine, and it is undoubtedly (Persian) wootz. Attached Images

26th March 2010, 01:43 AM	#1
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Thank you for this wonderful information. I found out that in 1837 a ship with British weopons for Circassian rebels was intercepted by Russian fleet. Maybe some some tool made of shear steel was reforged into kindjal? Somewhere here I saw photos of a chisel made of Sheffield shear steel compared to some Sham type of wootz, and there was some reference to Itame I think... IMO it`s almost impossible to differentiate them for a non-specialist. Maybe Lermontov considered the English shear steel as a Sham pattern? 007 scenario - I know, but maybe?

26th March 2010, 12:00 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	According to Ann Feuerbach, she found 2 wootz blades dating back to ~8th century in the North Caucasus. No need to invoke British shear steel. Also, "caucasians" had contacts with India and Persia well before Brits had a navy and Russia was an empire :-)

27th March 2010, 11:44 PM	#6
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hello together theodor believe me, I know wootz. 've Already seen from other Kindjal and Kamma wootz. It is rare but not impossible. They all had one thing in common they were of the same style. I guess South Caucasus. Greeting Chregu

28th March 2010, 06:15 AM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Alex, When you compare your blade to mine and chregu's, you can clearly see the difference. Yours is wootz, no doubt. Ours on the other hand, look quite different on closer inspection and I still think they are pattern welded. Teodor