Beautiful Indian handles

Rick · 29th May 2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hey!!! That last picture of the wavy bladed kattar is interesting! If the handle is covered, it looks just like a keris!

It could be a Bali keris blade Blu .
The one in this post (Katar#1) is made from the point of an Afghan sabre .
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001461.html

Andrew · 29th May 2005, 07:01 AM

When I read the title to this thread, I immediately thought of clear rock-crystal khandjar handles.

Is that a lapis handle in the last pic?

BluErf · 29th May 2005, 11:34 AM

Thanks for the link Rick.

That's very interesting though, like the concept of the firanggi. The keris blade looked good in its 'reincarnation' as a kattar.

Another thought -- given that the Indians had generally better metal technology than Southeast Asians, why did they modify the keris into a kattar? European blades may be adopted because of good steel/forging techniques, but most kerises doesn't quite strike me as comparable in terms of strength. Or could this be a case of aesthetics/style over functionality?

BluErf · 29th May 2005, 11:45 AM

Oh, and I forgot to *drooool* at Rick's Afghani sabre...

B.I · 29th May 2005, 02:37 PM

not very clear, but almost shows the side bars. from memory, they are relatively plain with a slightly bumped rim, as you can sort of make out from the images. it definately seems southern in design, and i would assume its hails from the south, especially if you veer towards the 'langet' theory, which is plausable.

ariel · 29th May 2005, 04:12 PM

Why do you think the blade on this katar comes from re-used kris?
The idea of wavy blade is not peculiar to Indonesia: Stone has a similar kris ( p.347, Fig 424, #19). What about European Flamberges? Also re-worked Krises?

Rick · 29th May 2005, 04:43 PM

Ariel , if you look closely at the base of the blade you can see the " fullers "
(for want of a better word) that end next to the langet on either side . These are evident on the Bali keris illustrated below . Not the central deep sogokan and pecetan but the wide shallow ones that are along the edge . I would also suggest that if this blade was made expressly for a katar the mounting 'langets' would be more in line with the center line of the blade itself .

29th May 2005, 02:37 PM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	not very clear, but almost shows the side bars. from memory, they are relatively plain with a slightly bumped rim, as you can sort of make out from the images. it definately seems southern in design, and i would assume its hails from the south, especially if you veer towards the 'langet' theory, which is plausable. Attached Images

29th May 2005, 04:43 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Ariel , if you look closely at the base of the blade you can see the " fullers " (for want of a better word) that end next to the langet on either side . These are evident on the Bali keris illustrated below . Not the central deep sogokan and pecetan but the wide shallow ones that are along the edge . I would also suggest that if this blade was made expressly for a katar the mounting 'langets' would be more in line with the center line of the blade itself . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 29th May 2005 at 05:03 PM.

29th May 2005, 07:01 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	When I read the title to this thread, I immediately thought of clear rock-crystal khandjar handles. Is that a lapis handle in the last pic?

29th May 2005, 11:34 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Thanks for the link Rick. That's very interesting though, like the concept of the firanggi. The keris blade looked good in its 'reincarnation' as a kattar. Another thought -- given that the Indians had generally better metal technology than Southeast Asians, why did they modify the keris into a kattar? European blades may be adopted because of good steel/forging techniques, but most kerises doesn't quite strike me as comparable in terms of strength. Or could this be a case of aesthetics/style over functionality?

29th May 2005, 11:45 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oh, and I forgot to drooool at Rick's Afghani sabre...

29th May 2005, 04:12 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Why do you think the blade on this katar comes from re-used kris? The idea of wavy blade is not peculiar to Indonesia: Stone has a similar kris ( p.347, Fig 424, #19). What about European Flamberges? Also re-worked Krises?