Indian Persian 18thc tulwar khanda sword?

Emanuel · 17th March 2010, 04:46 PM

Hello,

I vote for hybrid takouba-nimcha design. I don't think it's as old as 19th century

The brass work brings to mind Touareg work - see attached Oriental-Arms pics.
If the blade didn't look so thick I'd have voted for a modified machete.

Emanuel

Atlantia · 17th March 2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Hello,

I vote for hybrid takouba-nimcha design. I don't think it's as old as 19th century

The brass work brings to mind Touareg work - see attached Oriental-Arms pics.
If the blade didn't look so thick I'd have voted for a modified machete.

Emanuel

I totally agree with North African. The handle looks Moroccan.
I would date it to mid 19th though.
Altogether a rather nice and interesting piece, almost looks like it was made to lop heads or hands off.

tom hyle · 23rd March 2010, 04:22 AM

I'm thinking Indian or Afghan. Note the swelled tip slightly forward SE blade. Note the peacock. I think those are flowers. Also the hilt seems to be a fairly sturdy brass construction; probably filled with pitch rather than a wooden hilt covered with sheet brass as often seen on Berbese work. The finger "stall" may be a Turkish feature; in any event it spread throughout their empire. Blade is most like a khanda. Also note the curve of the knucklebow, which is more Indian than African. Cool sword. Any visible solder joints on the hilt?

katana · 23rd March 2010, 02:14 PM

I also believe North India/Afghanistan regions. Although the blade form is different, I am reminded of the Kopis.

Seems to have been used often....judging by the wear on the handle. The hilt is perfect for 'chopping' strikes or perhaps as a sacrificial short sword (Ram Dao).

Bearing in mind the Kopis spread across Northern India and Persia, it is not unreasonable to think variants may still exist in some areas. Below are some line drawings from "El Armamento Iberico" Fernando Quesada which helps to tie the hilt to the Kopis/Falcata. But could add weight to the arguement that North Africa could be a possible source !!!

The guard looks typical for Indian weapons as does much of the decoration, which seems to dismiss the African connection. Perhaps this was a commisioned piece made in Africa with design elements from India ???

What ever it is I like it.

Regards David

Rumpel · 23rd March 2010, 04:23 PM

Here's a left-field suggestion, utterly devoid of evidence: Northern Iraq?

The other thread stated that nimchas were known in Iraq; Kurmanji-speaking Northern Iraq is within the Persian cultural realm; the peacock is sacred to the local Yezidis; and they perform ritual ox sacrifice, in (perhaps) a similar manner to the Gurkhas, who use a kopis-like giant kukri for the purpose...

I can't prove any of this though

tom hyle · 24th March 2010, 06:56 AM

Also, a later thought; the long flat bolster at the base of the blade seems to be a hollow construction (almost ala habiki), whereas Tuareq etc. ones tend to be applied to the flat surfaces of the blade. Very suggestive illustrations there, and also raises the interesting question of how something so useful as the knucklebow has apparently risen, fallen, and returned at least once. Some ancient Latin gladiator weapons also had forms of basket hilts......

17th March 2010, 04:46 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	North-Africa / Sahel Hello, I vote for hybrid takouba-nimcha design. I don't think it's as old as 19th century The brass work brings to mind Touareg work - see attached Oriental-Arms pics. If the blade didn't look so thick I'd have voted for a modified machete. Emanuel Attached Images

23rd March 2010, 04:22 AM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	indian or Afghan I'm thinking Indian or Afghan. Note the swelled tip slightly forward SE blade. Note the peacock. I think those are flowers. Also the hilt seems to be a fairly sturdy brass construction; probably filled with pitch rather than a wooden hilt covered with sheet brass as often seen on Berbese work. The finger "stall" may be a Turkish feature; in any event it spread throughout their empire. Blade is most like a khanda. Also note the curve of the knucklebow, which is more Indian than African. Cool sword. Any visible solder joints on the hilt?

23rd March 2010, 02:14 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I also believe North India/Afghanistan regions. Although the blade form is different, I am reminded of the Kopis. Seems to have been used often....judging by the wear on the handle. The hilt is perfect for 'chopping' strikes or perhaps as a sacrificial short sword (Ram Dao). Bearing in mind the Kopis spread across Northern India and Persia, it is not unreasonable to think variants may still exist in some areas. Below are some line drawings from "El Armamento Iberico" Fernando Quesada which helps to tie the hilt to the Kopis/Falcata. But could add weight to the arguement that North Africa could be a possible source !!! The guard looks typical for Indian weapons as does much of the decoration, which seems to dismiss the African connection. Perhaps this was a commisioned piece made in Africa with design elements from India ??? What ever it is I like it. Regards David Attached Images

23rd March 2010, 04:23 PM	#5
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Here's a left-field suggestion, utterly devoid of evidence: Northern Iraq? The other thread stated that nimchas were known in Iraq; Kurmanji-speaking Northern Iraq is within the Persian cultural realm; the peacock is sacred to the local Yezidis; and they perform ritual ox sacrifice, in (perhaps) a similar manner to the Gurkhas, who use a kopis-like giant kukri for the purpose... I can't prove any of this though

24th March 2010, 06:56 AM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Also, a later thought; the long flat bolster at the base of the blade seems to be a hollow construction (almost ala habiki), whereas Tuareq etc. ones tend to be applied to the flat surfaces of the blade. Very suggestive illustrations there, and also raises the interesting question of how something so useful as the knucklebow has apparently risen, fallen, and returned at least once. Some ancient Latin gladiator weapons also had forms of basket hilts......