An 8-year journey

Naga Sasra · 28th February 2010, 12:08 AM

It is indeed a beautiful piece; the blade is a good blade, and all of the dress outstanding, congratulations!
In my mind it was certainly worth the 8 year old journey, it is breathtaking.

Regarding your statement quote: Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is... unquote.

I am a little concerned that someone out there will take the statement to heart and decide that unless the blade is sitting a little tall on the sheath it is not a correct Bali/Lombok piece. That would be rather unfortunate as the evidence clearly show that Bali/Lombok keris can be legitimately mounted in either way.

As a back up to my humble statement I will invite you to visit the Tropenmuseum’s Bali collection and the Bali collection at Volkenkunde in Leiden, here you will find most of the pieces in their collections flush with the sheath, that evidence is overwhelming. Add that to the Djelenga book Keris di Lombok where the result is the same, and I am afraid we cannot say that it is a foregone conclusion that Bali/Lombok blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath.

That said I really like the look of your piece, and with that I wish that more of mine have that look as well. But I gather that was left in the creative hands the tukang wrongko who did the scabbard.

As I mentioned there is no wrong way both scenarios are legitimate.

BluErf · 28th February 2010, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

It is indeed a beautiful piece; the blade is a good blade, and all of the dress outstanding, congratulations!
In my mind it was certainly worth the 8 year old journey, it is breathtaking.

Regarding your statement quote: Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is... unquote.

I am a little concerned that someone out there will take the statement to heart and decide that unless the blade is sitting a little tall on the sheath it is not a correct Bali/Lombok piece. That would be rather unfortunate as the evidence clearly show that Bali/Lombok keris can be legitimately mounted in either way.

As a back up to my humble statement I will invite you to visit the Tropenmuseum’s Bali collection and the Bali collection at Volkenkunde in Leiden, here you will find most of the pieces in their collections flush with the sheath, that evidence is overwhelming. Add that to the Djelenga book Keris di Lombok where the result is the same, and I am afraid we cannot say that it is a foregone conclusion that Bali/Lombok blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath.

That said I really like the look of your piece, and with that I wish that more of mine have that look as well. But I gather that was left in the creative hands the tukang wrongko who did the scabbard.

As I mentioned there is no wrong way both scenarios are legitimate.

You make a good point about the kerises that are in Amsterdam and Leiden. I haven't had the chance to go there and see for myself yet!

Marcokeris · 28th February 2010, 06:15 AM

nice work....but ring?

asomotif · 28th February 2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

I haven't had the chance to go there and see for myself yet!

This link will save you a trip

Besides that I think that at best there will be a small handfull on display.
While their archive has many exemples and old pictures available.

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...rt=ccrelevance

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nindex.asp?lang=en

Quote:

The blade was like this when I bought it. It probably was old polish/staining though the blade was much darker when I purchased it.

Wow! Lucky you.

Congrats on this very nice addition !

Naga Sasra · 28th February 2010, 02:01 PM

This is the link to database at the Volkenkunde Museum in Leiden

http://www.rmv.nl/zoek_collectie.asp...for1=kris+bali

Not the best or accurate descriptions or photos but between the two museums most likely the most comprehensive collections of keris.

David · 28th February 2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

nice work....but ring?

Marco, if you are questioning the fact that there is no uwer on this keris i must point out that you will find many old Bali Keris without them. For my own personal taste i also like having a uwer on my keris, but i do not think that it is a requirement for a complete keris, especially when the flow of the ensemble is well matched. Sometimes what we Westerners have grown a custom to does not actually reflect the ethnographic reality.

Marcokeris · 28th February 2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Marco, if you are questioning the fact that there is no uwer on this keris i must point out that you will find many old Bali Keris without them. For my own personal taste i also like having a uwer on my keris, but i do not think that it is a requirement for a complete keris, especially when the flow of the ensemble is well matched. Sometimes what we Westerners have grown a custom to does not actually reflect the ethnographic reality.

David i agree with you...but if "properly dressed" means "complete dressed" i see that there is not the ring under the hit. (Of course is better to see no rings that ...for example.. a Jawa/Sumatra ring in a Lombok/Balì keris... and this uncorrect combination is rather easy to see in Western sellers or in Western museum)

David · 28th February 2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

David i agree with you...but if "properly dressed" means "complete dressed" i see that there is not the ring under the hit. (Of course is better to see no rings that ...for example.. a Jawa/Sumatra ring in a Lombok/Balì keris... and this uncorrect combination is rather easy to see in Western sellers or in Western museum)

Marco, i am not yet convinced that a uwer must be present for a Balinese keris to be "properly dressed" or "completely dressed" so i do not think that you do agree with me. That is what i am saying.

asomotif · 28th February 2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

between the two museums most likely the most comprehensive collections of keris.

Auch !, this seems to be a thread whith some disagreements

1. The tropenmuseum has a rather extensive database.
2. the items are properly named and most of the dated.
3. the pictures give the possibility to zoom in on the object, which is failing at RMV.

Look at the 2 examples where I zoomed in on the pictures.

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...=&culturenode=

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...=&culturenode=

28th February 2010, 12:08 AM	#1
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	It is indeed a beautiful piece; the blade is a good blade, and all of the dress outstanding, congratulations! In my mind it was certainly worth the 8 year old journey, it is breathtaking. Regarding your statement quote: Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is... unquote. I am a little concerned that someone out there will take the statement to heart and decide that unless the blade is sitting a little tall on the sheath it is not a correct Bali/Lombok piece. That would be rather unfortunate as the evidence clearly show that Bali/Lombok keris can be legitimately mounted in either way. As a back up to my humble statement I will invite you to visit the Tropenmuseum’s Bali collection and the Bali collection at Volkenkunde in Leiden, here you will find most of the pieces in their collections flush with the sheath, that evidence is overwhelming. Add that to the Djelenga book Keris di Lombok where the result is the same, and I am afraid we cannot say that it is a foregone conclusion that Bali/Lombok blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. That said I really like the look of your piece, and with that I wish that more of mine have that look as well. But I gather that was left in the creative hands the tukang wrongko who did the scabbard. As I mentioned there is no wrong way both scenarios are legitimate.

28th February 2010, 06:15 AM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	nice work....but ring?

28th February 2010, 02:01 PM	#5
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	This is the link to database at the Volkenkunde Museum in Leiden http://www.rmv.nl/zoek_collectie.asp...for1=kris+bali Not the best or accurate descriptions or photos but between the two museums most likely the most comprehensive collections of keris.