Kerises in different cultural spheres

Jussi M. · 27th February 2010, 03:10 PM

Greetings,

on many occasions we look at the kerises as cultural artifacts frozen in the time and place that gave birth to them. However, due to modern technology our appreciation of time and space has changed. - They are not the boundaries they once were. These days the keris has truly become an international phenomena (in the form of collecting and study) and they can be found on places as remote and alien to the original cultural sphere they originated in as this:

Yeah... Snow. Lots of it. Took these pics today and wondered how might the kerises be like if the Indonesian Archipelago would looked liked this a few centuries ago?

Do we want it or not the world functions as systemic whole leading to cultural change and interchange everywhere. The keris too is not immune but a part of this change.

Thanks,

J.

Jussi M. · 27th February 2010, 04:09 PM

Forgot to say...

The location of above pictures is 100km from Helsinki, Southern Finland, EU.

Thanks,

J.

Rick · 27th February 2010, 05:21 PM

Looks like you're having a mild winter .

laEspadaAncha · 27th February 2010, 05:41 PM

While unashamedly an admitted novice on the keris, as an armchair student of history, I would think that given the "backend" religious factors driving the "front-end" cultural expression of the keris, it is a fair assumption the only realized difference resulting from a change in climate might have been in the materials (i.e., type of wood) used in creating the ukiran, warangka, & gambar. Snow did not keep the Hindu religion from flourishing in the Himalayas; and the same forms of weaponry with only slight-to-moderate variations may be found along a wide range of latitudes from mountain peaks of Nepal to the tropical southern subcontinent.

Of course, take my opinion for what it is worth: exactly what it cost...

Now, on the other hand, if you're speaking of how the keris may have developed had it been indigenous to Finland, I think it might have looked something like this:

Jussi M. · 27th February 2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Looks like you're having a mild winter .

Sure...

Rick · 27th February 2010, 11:05 PM

You took that picture at high noon, didn't you ?

Jussi M. · 27th February 2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

You took that picture at high noon, didn't you ?

Nah, about eight o´clock in the evening or so after seeing yours. Decided to make a homage to it so dug the Keris out of it´s rest place, laid it against the window for a minute and took a a couple quick and dirty pics of which the shown was the best of.

I guess I am not much of a photographer Rick

Best,

J.

Rick · 28th February 2010, 12:43 AM

Our Winter :

Jussi M. · 28th February 2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Our Winter :

Amateur

Rick · 28th February 2010, 01:31 AM

LOLZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BluErf · 28th February 2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Looks like you're having a mild winter .

Beautiful wood grains! I love this keris!

Isn't the ukiran in a rather Malay/Bugis position?

If the keris were to have developed in Scandinavia, I bet it would likely have fur-coated sheaths

A. G. Maisey · 1st March 2010, 07:38 AM

Our winter:- 25 June 2009 (middle of winter) at our place.

David · 1st March 2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Our winter:- 25 June 2009 (middle of winter) at our place.

You have to rub it in, don't you Alan...

Rick · 1st March 2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

You have to rub it in, don't you Alan...

Let's emigrate David !
Alan would love the company !!

@Kai Wee ,
I just kind of like the way the handles look canted out a little ...

A 3 luk Kelengan Sepang lurks within that wrongko .

A. G. Maisey · 1st March 2010, 10:25 PM

Sorry David.

Couldn't resist it.

After all that snow I figured the page needed to be brightened up a bit.

Jussi M. · 2nd March 2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sorry David.

Couldn't resist it.

After all that snow I figured the page needed to be brightened up a bit.

Very funny Mr. Maisey.

Rick · 2nd March 2010, 12:27 AM

That's just a tiny Grinner Jussi .

We have those leetle fellers over here in New England too

They make surfing a very interesting pastime .

A. G. Maisey · 2nd March 2010, 12:54 AM

Wasn't trying to be funny Jussi.

Actually, I like sharks. They make really great eating. I think my favourite fish for fish & chips is shark.

Being the kind, sensitive people we are here in the Land of Oz, we've declared a lot of types of sharks as endangered, and protected them. I'm not all that much in agreement with this, because it reduces availability of them for eating.

Another example of animal protectionism gone mad.

You see, we eat the sharks:- the sharks don't eat us.

Rick · 2nd March 2010, 01:03 AM

Mako can be good if fresh .
Pointies are protected here as in AU. if I am correct.

BTW , what a Helluva Winter we've been having; major coastal erosion; and we don't have a heck of a lot left to erode !
I couldn't take the back road to Town; it was flooded out .

"Oh what a good game."

Rick

David · 2nd March 2010, 05:00 AM

Just to take this conversation just a little bit further off the discussion of keris, sharks have THE highest levels of mercury of ANY fish you can eat. Just something to keep in mind if you eat it often.

Rick · 2nd March 2010, 10:11 PM

Funny, when I was a kid I had a vial of Mercury .
The stuff was fun to play with ...

Just a second !
That explains it .

David · 3rd March 2010, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Funny, when I was a kid I had a vial of Mercury .
The stuff was fun to play with ...
Just a second !
That explains it .

Glad i wasn't drinking coffee when i read this... LOL!

kronckew · 3rd March 2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

...

If the keris were to have developed in Scandinavia, I bet it would likely have fur-coated sheaths

i have a malay/indonesian pirate klewang in a fur-coated sheath. of course most of the fur has worn off now.

and david, one of the most expensive coffees comes from there, apparently they get a civert cat to eat the coffee fruits, and it poops out the beans and they charge a small fortune for them (kopi luwak). supposedly tastes heavenly, but as i've never had the pleasure, maybe some one else can comment

edited:
p.s. - from the reference wiki article in the para. above, kopi muncak may be possible here, we have a number of muntjac deer in residence on the neighbourhood farms where i walk the greyhounds, i'll have to leave out some unroasted coffee beans hidden in some fruit and see what happens. Kopi manusia is another possibility

David · 3rd March 2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

and david, one of the most expensive coffees comes from there, apparently they get a civert cat to eat the coffee fruits, and it poops out the beans and they charge a small fortune for them (kopi luwak). supposedly tastes heavenly, but as i've never had the pleasure, maybe some one else can comment

Yes Kronckew. i used to sell coffee for a living so i am aware of this special brew. I haven't had the pleasure yet either...

kronckew · 3rd March 2010, 05:25 PM

one of my favourite stores in al khobar, KSA was the coffee store, it had bags and bags of beans on display in a rather large room of all different beans and roasts, you'd tell them which beans, which roast and how much of each and what kind of coffee maker you used and they'd grind them right in front of you.

i'd buy a kilo at a time of arabica in a half and half mix of 'italian' roast (darkest) and 'american' roast (kinda medium-dark). they did their own roasting. wonderful smelling store. wonderful coffee. much better than the pre-ground common muck you get in supermarkets.

i occasionally buy a bag of 'specialty' coffee beans at the local costa coffee bar and grind them myself. beans and ground coffee get put in the freezer till used to keep the flavour in. i use one of the french press coffee things, never a percolater.

p.s. kopi luwak was 'only' £26.50 ($40) for 50grams (1.76 ounces) at a place i found here that had it.

have we gone far enough off topic yet?

Jussi M. · 3rd March 2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Have we gone far enough off topic yet?

From a surface level yes, but no

Rick · 3rd March 2010, 06:03 PM

Keurig .

So hate me ...

Jussi M. · 3rd March 2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Keurig .

So hate me ...

kronckew · 3rd March 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Keurig .

So hate me ...

better than instant i guess....

A. G. Maisey · 3rd March 2010, 11:15 PM

Coffee is one of life's essentials.

I've had kopi luwak a number of times, in fact, one of my wife's relatives in Bali produce the stuff as a hobby, they've got some luwak (palm civet) in a big cage, they feed them the coffee beans and then produce the coffee.

As noted, it can be unbelievably expensive-- I believe that the wife's relos charge something like 7 million rupiah for it if they sell it--- but to my taste, its not really anything special. Its less bitter than some coffees, but if it was given to you blind, and you didn't know it had been through an animal's guts, you'd only think it was some different sort of coffee. Its different, but not better.

In Indonesia you can buy coffee in the supermarkets that is branded "Kopi Luwak", but its just a brand name, not the real thing.

I currently get my coffee sent to me by a small custom producer here in Sydney. I used to get a custom blend that was arabica, blue mountain, and peabody, and that was very good, but the blend they send me now is just as good, and a lot easier to get. Mostly I use a plunger, but occasionally I'll do stove top espresso. In the past I used to wait while the beans were roasted, then I'd take them home and grind them myself, but I've found that if I buy freshly ground coffee in a vacuum pack, and store it in the deep freeze section of the fridge, there is not any noticeable difference in taste.

27th February 2010, 03:10 PM	#1
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Kerises in different cultural spheres Greetings, on many occasions we look at the kerises as cultural artifacts frozen in the time and place that gave birth to them. However, due to modern technology our appreciation of time and space has changed. - They are not the boundaries they once were. These days the keris has truly become an international phenomena (in the form of collecting and study) and they can be found on places as remote and alien to the original cultural sphere they originated in as this: Yeah... Snow. Lots of it. Took these pics today and wondered how might the kerises be like if the Indonesian Archipelago would looked liked this a few centuries ago? Do we want it or not the world functions as systemic whole leading to cultural change and interchange everywhere. The keris too is not immune but a part of this change. Thanks, J. Last edited by Jussi M.; 27th February 2010 at 03:35 PM.

27th February 2010, 05:21 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Looks like you're having a mild winter . Attached Images

28th February 2010, 12:43 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Our Winter : Attached Images

1st March 2010, 07:38 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Our winter:- 25 June 2009 (middle of winter) at our place. Attached Images

2nd March 2010, 12:27 AM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	That's just a tiny Grinner Jussi . We have those leetle fellers over here in New England too They make surfing a very interesting pastime . Last edited by Rick; 2nd March 2010 at 12:56 AM.

27th February 2010, 04:09 PM	#2
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Forgot to say... The location of above pictures is 100km from Helsinki, Southern Finland, EU. Thanks, J.

27th February 2010, 05:41 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	While unashamedly an admitted novice on the keris, as an armchair student of history, I would think that given the "backend" religious factors driving the "front-end" cultural expression of the keris, it is a fair assumption the only realized difference resulting from a change in climate might have been in the materials (i.e., type of wood) used in creating the ukiran, warangka, & gambar. Snow did not keep the Hindu religion from flourishing in the Himalayas; and the same forms of weaponry with only slight-to-moderate variations may be found along a wide range of latitudes from mountain peaks of Nepal to the tropical southern subcontinent. Of course, take my opinion for what it is worth: exactly what it cost... Now, on the other hand, if you're speaking of how the keris may have developed had it been indigenous to Finland, I think it might have looked something like this:

27th February 2010, 11:05 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	You took that picture at high noon, didn't you ?

28th February 2010, 01:31 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	LOLZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1st March 2010, 10:25 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Sorry David. Couldn't resist it. After all that snow I figured the page needed to be brightened up a bit.

2nd March 2010, 12:54 AM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Wasn't trying to be funny Jussi. Actually, I like sharks. They make really great eating. I think my favourite fish for fish & chips is shark. Being the kind, sensitive people we are here in the Land of Oz, we've declared a lot of types of sharks as endangered, and protected them. I'm not all that much in agreement with this, because it reduces availability of them for eating. Another example of animal protectionism gone mad. You see, we eat the sharks:- the sharks don't eat us.

2nd March 2010, 01:03 AM	#19
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Mako can be good if fresh . Pointies are protected here as in AU. if I am correct. BTW , what a Helluva Winter we've been having; major coastal erosion; and we don't have a heck of a lot left to erode ! I couldn't take the back road to Town; it was flooded out . "Oh what a good game." Rick Last edited by Rick; 2nd March 2010 at 02:41 AM.

2nd March 2010, 05:00 AM	#20
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Just to take this conversation just a little bit further off the discussion of keris, sharks have THE highest levels of mercury of ANY fish you can eat. Just something to keep in mind if you eat it often.

2nd March 2010, 10:11 PM	#21
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Funny, when I was a kid I had a vial of Mercury . The stuff was fun to play with ... Just a second ! That explains it .

3rd March 2010, 05:25 PM	#25
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	one of my favourite stores in al khobar, KSA was the coffee store, it had bags and bags of beans on display in a rather large room of all different beans and roasts, you'd tell them which beans, which roast and how much of each and what kind of coffee maker you used and they'd grind them right in front of you. i'd buy a kilo at a time of arabica in a half and half mix of 'italian' roast (darkest) and 'american' roast (kinda medium-dark). they did their own roasting. wonderful smelling store. wonderful coffee. much better than the pre-ground common muck you get in supermarkets. i occasionally buy a bag of 'specialty' coffee beans at the local costa coffee bar and grind them myself. beans and ground coffee get put in the freezer till used to keep the flavour in. i use one of the french press coffee things, never a percolater. p.s. kopi luwak was 'only' £26.50 ($40) for 50grams (1.76 ounces) at a place i found here that had it. have we gone far enough off topic yet?

3rd March 2010, 06:03 PM	#27
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Keurig . So hate me ...

3rd March 2010, 11:15 PM	#30
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Coffee is one of life's essentials. I've had kopi luwak a number of times, in fact, one of my wife's relatives in Bali produce the stuff as a hobby, they've got some luwak (palm civet) in a big cage, they feed them the coffee beans and then produce the coffee. As noted, it can be unbelievably expensive-- I believe that the wife's relos charge something like 7 million rupiah for it if they sell it--- but to my taste, its not really anything special. Its less bitter than some coffees, but if it was given to you blind, and you didn't know it had been through an animal's guts, you'd only think it was some different sort of coffee. Its different, but not better. In Indonesia you can buy coffee in the supermarkets that is branded "Kopi Luwak", but its just a brand name, not the real thing. I currently get my coffee sent to me by a small custom producer here in Sydney. I used to get a custom blend that was arabica, blue mountain, and peabody, and that was very good, but the blend they send me now is just as good, and a lot easier to get. Mostly I use a plunger, but occasionally I'll do stove top espresso. In the past I used to wait while the beans were roasted, then I'd take them home and grind them myself, but I've found that if I buy freshly ground coffee in a vacuum pack, and store it in the deep freeze section of the fridge, there is not any noticeable difference in taste.