Question about a briquet

[fernando]

I know the briquet didn't make the Brits taste; i was influenced by the 'WAR' composition, as it sort of sounds english ... to me .
I can tell you that the letter 'W' isn't used in Spain or Portugal; neither in France, unless a few exceptions or borrowed names.
OTOH, the 'warranted cast steel' stamp is often seen in British tools ... for what this is worth.
I hope you sort it out, anyway; i die of anger each i don't manage to discern the meaning of marks in my stuff.
Fernando

[M ELEY]

Ah yes, the anguish of not being able to solve a mystery. I know it well

A quick search about crucible steel/forged steel shows that its been around since the 1780's, and the "warranted" stamp seems to have been used, as you say, on many tools of fine quality from around 1820 into the early 20th century. As the Brits didn't use these type swords, perhaps it is an American piece after all? If so, crucible steel didn't really start until the 1860's in the U.S. Interestingly, my source says that the tools that most frequently bore this mark were often ship carpenter tools...very interesting. Thanks again for the tip. I'll keep up the search.

[Ian Knight]

The sword with a cast handle is very similar to a British P1896 mountain artillery sword. See page 82 of 'British Military Swords' by H. Withers.

Ian

[Jim McDougall]

I think these examples are excellent for discussion as they represent two most puzzling conundrums in the world of regulation swords for other ranks and departmental or auxiliary units. In many ways they bring back great memories for me as these forms are among the first swords I ever collected many, MANY years ago!!

First of all the briquet. I bought one of these when I was just a very young collector and of course to me it looked every bit like a 'pirate sword' !! Visually, these type of swords had always been associated with the many 'Howard Pyle' style images of pirates (though he even used the showy brass bowl hilts of the Civil War naval swords for effect). The one I had was with a heavy unfullered wedge type blade, with two initials in the cast brass hilt in cartouche. At that time I had no idea I was to begin a lifetime voyage in the odyssey of studying antique arms, and as was typical, my quest in trying to learn more on this old briquet carried on intermittantly for literally decades.

I soon discovered that rather than being a pirate sword, or for that matter anything naval, this was an ordinary artillery sword of the early 19th century.
Actually I thought it was probably British, as the first book I ever identified one in was by Wilkinson I believe, then similar entries in Blair and others.
When Robson came out in 1975 ("British Military Swords" Brian Robson) he notes, "...in the early years of the 19th century ordinary artillerymen were armed with a short curved sword with straight brass knucklebow hilt, closely similar to the French infantry sword (briquet) of AnIX (1800-01) and AnXI (1802-03)".

In subsequent years, I discovered that these inexpensively produced cast brass hilt other ranks swords were used by virtually every European country, as well as many others and as often quipped in talks with other collectors 'the Martians probably even had 'em!'. These seem to have come in around the end of the 18th century, and opening of the 19th, and were used until about mid century. As for my own example, I finally determined by measurements etc. and the unusual flat blade, that it was Spanish colonial with hilt origin uncertain. In the amalgamated hybrid weapons found in Mexico I even found one of these with three bar cavalry guard, briquet hilt and a shortened 18th century Spanish dragoon blade with 'Spanish motto'.

With the apparantly old blade, the very blingy brass hilt and curious stamps mid blade, I might suggest this could have come out of the Bannerman empire of military surplus and antiquities of the 1930s I believe in New York. It seems they were adept at producing cast brass hilts and putting them with old blades, and the markings with some sort of inventory notation.

The other sabre, is in my impression indeed a mountain artillery gunners sabre from India, but not the M1896, which is described by Robson (p.153) as one of the "..rarest of all British military patterns". Another of my early 'conquests' was one of these, with the cast ribbed hilt and stirrup hilt guard, which like this, is flatter and cast in brass. The M1896 is a much deeper profiled sheet steel guard in somewhat of a shallow bowl type shape.
The mountain batteries were individual units that began in 1850 with the Hazara Mountain Train, followed by the Peshawar Mountain Train in 1853.
These mountain artillery units were outstanding examples of the innovation and colorful times of Kipling in the mountain passes of the Khyber in the 19th century, and by 1889 there were 8 units. Their guns were actually mobile in that they were dismantled and loaded onto pack horses.
With that I would consider this sabre relatively unique in its own right, as there cannot have been that many of these sabres in use, and it I understand correctly, they were typically carried only by havildars (sergeants). I believe there were numbers of these swords carried in various Indian units into WWII.

All in all, while not even remotely naval, both of these swords might be considered unique in thier own way. If the briquet turns out to be a Bannerman product it has its own place in Americana, in the early days of militaria collecting.
As for the mountain artillery sabre, it may well have begun its time in the historic passes of the Khyber and found its way into Burmese regions or other British areas where Indian regiments posted in WWII.

It seems that even in the most pedestrian instances with many weapons, they always have stories to tell and as an old pirate hunter I know well that 'the treasure is in the hunt'!!!

All the best,
Jim

[katana]

Hi Mark
thought I'd post some of the auction pictures ....'tweaked' alittle to make them a little clearer

Regards David

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[M ELEY]

Ouch! Well, I didn't have high hopes on the briquet to start with, BUT the iron hilted piece...now that one I truly believed to be naval. These have been listed as such in many of the Fagan, Frederick's Swords, etc, etc...
Live and learn, I guess. I'm not upset, though. As you say, Jim, the importance and fun is in the exploration. That being said, I'll probably move these through a friend of mine who collects that sort of thing. So, it's back to the search for the next mystery!

Oh, forgot to thank you, David, for tweeking the pics for me. It is appreciated!

[celtan]

I think your swords were the priced possession of someone, who liked them well enough as to bother polishing their brass to make them look "better".

As it is, all the swords of the 1816 type I have ever owned, have had a flat blade, never "wide" grooved. That by itself is interesting enough in yours.

FYE: Enclosed are a few related images from my menagerie. In fact, my sword in the Horstmann hanger thread is also a type of briquette, a combination of a brass cast hilt and steel blade.