First Keris for me

A. G. Maisey · 24th February 2010, 04:56 AM

Thanks schmoozer, that's great.

This cannot be a Tuban blade.

The length of the gonjo from the pesi (tang) to the buntut urang (narrow end of gonjo) is too great, there appears to be a very slight curve in the side of the gonjo, and the buntut urang itself is the wrong shape for Tuban, additionally, many would not accept the sirah cecak form (wide end of gonjo) as Tuban.

I am not prepared to give a classification on this blade from a photograph.

David, I think that that material may be the remnant of a separate layer that once covered the top of the gonjo; it has eroded and broken away. I've seen this type of construction a number of times, sometimes in a pamor that matches the blade, sometimes in plain iron in order to conceal the pamor.

schmoozer · 25th February 2010, 03:41 AM

Thanks for all the information. I have the blade soaking in vinegar for the night.

I did ask a question regarding hilt orientation and the position of the blade tip. Should the tip point down when the hilt is held level? I have looked at other pictures in the forum and it seems that my hilt was off 180-degrees?

A. G. Maisey · 25th February 2010, 07:02 AM

With this type of keris the curl in the pommel of the hilt should be positioned over the thick end of the gonjo (sirah cecak), or angled just slightly towards the ground when the blade is held level.

David · 25th February 2010, 04:43 PM

I dug this up talking to Brad in PM about dated hilts. The only other one i have seen was posted on this forum some time ago. Same kind of number orientation with a number both above and below the "year", if it is a year. We didn't really come to much conclusion on that one either.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=date+keris

schmoozer · 26th February 2010, 05:41 AM

I followed the listed directions, scrubbing it with hot soapy water, then soaking it 24 hours immersed in vinegar. The blade is clean but has the same finish as before. Is there an upper limit of time for soaking in vinegar? The vinegar had little discoloration afterwards.

The blade construction is not near as complex as others I have seen here. It looks to have a core with 3 or 4 flat layers sandwiched on each side? I initially posted a picture that shows this...

regards,

Brad

kai · 26th February 2010, 08:14 AM

Hello Brad,

Quote:

I followed the listed directions, scrubbing it with hot soapy water, then soaking it 24 hours immersed in vinegar. The blade is clean but has the same finish as before. Is there an upper limit of time for soaking in vinegar? The vinegar had little discoloration afterwards.

Make sure that the metal surface doesn't corrode too much (not very sensitive issue with keris Jawa). Given that, you sure can repeat soap followed by vinegar; a blade can take a while to take an etch, especially if the blade has been polished with a machine.

You'll probably need to work on the tang to loosen up the rust (try a wooden stick or steel wool). The yellowish discoloration is most likely from the rust of the tang.

Quote:

The blade construction is not near as complex as others I have seen here.

Yes, it's an "unplanned" pamor. Can also look neat though.

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 26th February 2010, 02:24 PM

Alan is away and offered this for me to pass on :
" most old blades have residual arsenic in the metal.

a soak in ordinary household vinegar usually reactivates this.

it will probably take longer than a day, I have soaked blades in vinegar with no ill effects for 10 days or more, but it is not as gentle as pineapple juice, so you need to monitor daily to ensure that it is not eating into the metal.

you will eventually get a result, but it may be faint, it depends on how much residual arsenic is in the blade, and on the strength of the vinegar, temperature also plays a role, it works better in warm weather.

that's ordinary old fashioned vinegar, not balsamic or any of the other fancy ones . "

26th February 2010, 05:41 AM	#5
schmoozer Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, Wa. USA Posts: 12	Cleaning done with little results I followed the listed directions, scrubbing it with hot soapy water, then soaking it 24 hours immersed in vinegar. The blade is clean but has the same finish as before. Is there an upper limit of time for soaking in vinegar? The vinegar had little discoloration afterwards. The blade construction is not near as complex as others I have seen here. It looks to have a core with 3 or 4 flat layers sandwiched on each side? I initially posted a picture that shows this... regards, Brad

24th February 2010, 04:56 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thanks schmoozer, that's great. This cannot be a Tuban blade. The length of the gonjo from the pesi (tang) to the buntut urang (narrow end of gonjo) is too great, there appears to be a very slight curve in the side of the gonjo, and the buntut urang itself is the wrong shape for Tuban, additionally, many would not accept the sirah cecak form (wide end of gonjo) as Tuban. I am not prepared to give a classification on this blade from a photograph. David, I think that that material may be the remnant of a separate layer that once covered the top of the gonjo; it has eroded and broken away. I've seen this type of construction a number of times, sometimes in a pamor that matches the blade, sometimes in plain iron in order to conceal the pamor.

25th February 2010, 03:41 AM	#2
schmoozer Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, Wa. USA Posts: 12	Thanks for all the information. I have the blade soaking in vinegar for the night. I did ask a question regarding hilt orientation and the position of the blade tip. Should the tip point down when the hilt is held level? I have looked at other pictures in the forum and it seems that my hilt was off 180-degrees?

25th February 2010, 07:02 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	With this type of keris the curl in the pommel of the hilt should be positioned over the thick end of the gonjo (sirah cecak), or angled just slightly towards the ground when the blade is held level.

25th February 2010, 04:43 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I dug this up talking to Brad in PM about dated hilts. The only other one i have seen was posted on this forum some time ago. Same kind of number orientation with a number both above and below the "year", if it is a year. We didn't really come to much conclusion on that one either. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=date+keris

26th February 2010, 02:24 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Alan is away and offered this for me to pass on : " most old blades have residual arsenic in the metal. a soak in ordinary household vinegar usually reactivates this. it will probably take longer than a day, I have soaked blades in vinegar with no ill effects for 10 days or more, but it is not as gentle as pineapple juice, so you need to monitor daily to ensure that it is not eating into the metal. you will eventually get a result, but it may be faint, it depends on how much residual arsenic is in the blade, and on the strength of the vinegar, temperature also plays a role, it works better in warm weather. that's ordinary old fashioned vinegar, not balsamic or any of the other fancy ones . "