one more keris

brekele · 22nd February 2010, 01:43 PM

Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).

Second warangka’s style is called ladrangan sukun , taken from daun sukun’s shape (Artocarpus communis leaf).

3th, Warangka’s style is called “Lanbulanan”, taken from shape of bulan sabit (Half moon).

First and second pictures, shown Janggelan hilt.

Janggelan is taken from the shape of “Ampas buah Jagung” (inside of corn fruit that has been take out all of the corn’s seed), oh…sorry for my English for the last explanation about “Corn”, because difficult word for "Ampas Jagung" to find in English dictionary.

Rick · 22nd February 2010, 04:36 PM

I think the english word you are looking for is ' cob ' Brekele .

brekele · 22nd February 2010, 05:14 PM

Yes Rick, your are 100% right.
Janggelan hilt shape is taken from "Cob".
Thank you Rick.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd February 2010, 09:05 PM

Thank you very much for your prompt and informative response, Brekele.

So, we can take "gabilan" as the Madurese equivalent for "gayaman".

However, this raises for me the question as to why prior to 1995, my enquiries in Sumenep and Pamekesan indicated that the Javanese wrongkos that I know as gayaman were also identified by Madurese people as gayaman, but the heavily carved form such as was on display in the kraton musium was identified as gabilan. This was between 15 and 25 years ago, and at that time, most of the people I spoke with were not young men, but people of around my own age, or perhaps a little older, similarly, 15-25 years ago the plethora of keris books that have now flooded the market, did not exist.

In my previous post I mentioned the brahmana rsi form.

Do you know this form?

Moving to the ladrangan form.

You have shown two forms of ladrangan wrongko, each with a further classificatory name. This seems to indicate that the classification of "ladrangan" is still alive and well in Madura, and if this is so, then why do we now so often see these Madura ladrangans described as "daunan"?

The ladrangan from timoho, that you identify as ladrangan sukun was identified by several informants in Madura, pre-1995, as capu kagok. Incidentally, has the daun on this warangka been shortened because of repair? Proportion is is not good. Or is this a photographic distortion?

Rick, "ampas jagung" is actually more than just "corn cob". "Ampas" means waste or residue after all the good stuff has been removed, jagung is the corn, so ampas jagung is the corn cob that has been stripped of its seed.

Rick · 22nd February 2010, 09:12 PM

Thank you Alan, that was what I thought .

brekele · 23rd February 2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

So, we can take "gabilan" as the Madurese equivalent for "gayaman".

Of course diffrent area diffrent way to say it but IMO, I would personally think so, just please correct me if my thought was wrong, Javanese Culture influenced to Maduranese for this gayaman subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my previous post I mentioned the brahmana rsi form.

Do you know this form?

I never heard & know about this kind of warangka , first time heard it from you

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

why do we now so often see these Madura ladrangans described as "daunan"?

Among young maduranese (my age) friend of mine, some of them said “Daunan” for warangka with shape of jackfruit’ leaf and “Ladrang daun” or “ Ladrang daunan” for warangka with shape of Sukun’s leaf.
Again, influenced of Javanese Culture is very strong in their heart & mind because they born or grow up in Jawa (Surabaya) even they has Maduranese blood. So, I got most of Keris Madura’s knowledge from young Maduranese friends.

But for older people I heard they said “Daunan” for both of warangka style. Well, I dont have many older Maduranese friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

has the daun on this warangka been shortened because of repair?

No, It is originally and no repair.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd February 2010, 01:26 AM

Thanks for the fast response, Brekele.

Brekele, I cannot correct you in this matter, my knowledge of Madurese language is virtually nil. The mother-in-law of one of my sons comes from Madura, but I don't think her command of the Madura language is very good, as when I have asked specific questions of her, I have received answers that relate more to East Jawa ngoko, than to something I could accept as Madurese.

I had two references for brahmana rsi form, the first was the wrongko on display in the kraton musium, the second was an elderly dealer in Sumenep. I've never come across mention of this form anywhere else. I could well be a classification that has fallen out of general usage.

Thank you for your further clarification.

Sajen · 22nd February 2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).

Thank you Brekele, all is very informative. And I think now is also clear from where the name daunan orginate from.

Detlef

22nd February 2010, 01:43 PM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka. First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf). Second warangka’s style is called ladrangan sukun , taken from daun sukun’s shape (Artocarpus communis leaf). 3th, Warangka’s style is called “Lanbulanan”, taken from shape of bulan sabit (Half moon). First and second pictures, shown Janggelan hilt. Janggelan is taken from the shape of “Ampas buah Jagung” (inside of corn fruit that has been take out all of the corn’s seed), oh…sorry for my English for the last explanation about “Corn”, because difficult word for "Ampas Jagung" to find in English dictionary. Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 04:36 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I think the english word you are looking for is ' cob ' Brekele .

22nd February 2010, 05:14 PM	#3
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Yes Rick, your are 100% right. Janggelan hilt shape is taken from "Cob". Thank you Rick.

22nd February 2010, 09:05 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you very much for your prompt and informative response, Brekele. So, we can take "gabilan" as the Madurese equivalent for "gayaman". However, this raises for me the question as to why prior to 1995, my enquiries in Sumenep and Pamekesan indicated that the Javanese wrongkos that I know as gayaman were also identified by Madurese people as gayaman, but the heavily carved form such as was on display in the kraton musium was identified as gabilan. This was between 15 and 25 years ago, and at that time, most of the people I spoke with were not young men, but people of around my own age, or perhaps a little older, similarly, 15-25 years ago the plethora of keris books that have now flooded the market, did not exist. In my previous post I mentioned the brahmana rsi form. Do you know this form? Moving to the ladrangan form. You have shown two forms of ladrangan wrongko, each with a further classificatory name. This seems to indicate that the classification of "ladrangan" is still alive and well in Madura, and if this is so, then why do we now so often see these Madura ladrangans described as "daunan"? The ladrangan from timoho, that you identify as ladrangan sukun was identified by several informants in Madura, pre-1995, as capu kagok. Incidentally, has the daun on this warangka been shortened because of repair? Proportion is is not good. Or is this a photographic distortion? Rick, "ampas jagung" is actually more than just "corn cob". "Ampas" means waste or residue after all the good stuff has been removed, jagung is the corn, so ampas jagung is the corn cob that has been stripped of its seed.

22nd February 2010, 09:12 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Thank you Alan, that was what I thought .

23rd February 2010, 01:26 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thanks for the fast response, Brekele. Brekele, I cannot correct you in this matter, my knowledge of Madurese language is virtually nil. The mother-in-law of one of my sons comes from Madura, but I don't think her command of the Madura language is very good, as when I have asked specific questions of her, I have received answers that relate more to East Jawa ngoko, than to something I could accept as Madurese. I had two references for brahmana rsi form, the first was the wrongko on display in the kraton musium, the second was an elderly dealer in Sumenep. I've never come across mention of this form anywhere else. I could well be a classification that has fallen out of general usage. Thank you for your further clarification.