African Knife/Sword With Copper Wire Work

Freddy · 21st February 2010, 07:10 PM

It's hard to tell the age of an African piece. The one I showed from the book is documented. The author states that it came from the collection of the Fathers Capuchins from Antwerp (Belgium) with as collection date : between 1880-1920.

I doubt that your piece is as old, but it probably dates from the 50's or 60's. In the beginning of the sixties Congo became independent and a lot of colonists returned to their homecountry, bringing with them these jewels.

I wouldn't ask the seller for more info as he gives the wrong continent as place of origin.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 22nd February 2010, 10:14 PM

Yes very good !
A nice example with the scabbard (rare).
Surely beginning of the 20th.
There is also a copper model.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 22nd February 2010, 11:09 PM

The model of the book "Fatal Beauty" (Freddy) at the exhibit in Taiwan.

Robert · 23rd February 2010, 06:49 AM

Luc,
Thank you for the pictures and information. The one with the copper blade is absolutely amazing.

I would imagine that they are quite a bit rarer that the steel bladed ones. After seeing all of the wonderful pictures that have been posted I cannot wait for mine to arrive. I just hope that when it does that it in in decent condition and that there is not a lot of unseen damage on the side of the scabbard that is not shown in the picture. Just so I do not inflict any further damage to it what would be the best way of cleaning the copper parts with out loosing the patina? Thanks to all again for all your help.

Robert

P.S.
I do know NOT to use metal polish on the copper.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 23rd February 2010, 09:37 PM

Just rub it with a soft dry cloth, it will shine without being glossy.

Robert · 23rd February 2010, 10:16 PM

Luc,
Thank you for your reply and the advice on cleaning. This is probably as good a time as any to ask a question that I have been wondering about for quite a while now. If you have a piece that has either copper or brass on it and it has heavy green oxidation on it that is eating into the metal what is the best coarse of action to take to stop it and do you completely remove the oxidation or not? I have run into this problem a few times before (especially on items that were left for years in leather sheaths) and I always just cleaned the effected area completely free of the oxidation with penetrating oil and 0000 steel wool.

Robert

Luc LEFEBVRE · 25th February 2010, 08:02 PM

There are many "schools", but personnaly I clean.
Rust and oxidation are not patina for me, so I clean my knives.
Especially if it is green oxidation, it is easy to clean to "new" copper and brass, but it also easy to make old with specific products.And you don't need a long time to have a soft matt, unpolished patina, which is better,for me , than a bad green.

22nd February 2010, 10:14 PM	#2
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Yes very good ! A nice example with the scabbard (rare). Surely beginning of the 20th. There is also a copper model. Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 11:09 PM	#3
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	The model of the book "Fatal Beauty" (Freddy) at the exhibit in Taiwan. Attached Images

21st February 2010, 07:10 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	It's hard to tell the age of an African piece. The one I showed from the book is documented. The author states that it came from the collection of the Fathers Capuchins from Antwerp (Belgium) with as collection date : between 1880-1920. I doubt that your piece is as old, but it probably dates from the 50's or 60's. In the beginning of the sixties Congo became independent and a lot of colonists returned to their homecountry, bringing with them these jewels. I wouldn't ask the seller for more info as he gives the wrong continent as place of origin.

23rd February 2010, 06:49 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Luc, Thank you for the pictures and information. The one with the copper blade is absolutely amazing. I would imagine that they are quite a bit rarer that the steel bladed ones. After seeing all of the wonderful pictures that have been posted I cannot wait for mine to arrive. I just hope that when it does that it in in decent condition and that there is not a lot of unseen damage on the side of the scabbard that is not shown in the picture. Just so I do not inflict any further damage to it what would be the best way of cleaning the copper parts with out loosing the patina? Thanks to all again for all your help. Robert P.S. I do know NOT to use metal polish on the copper.

23rd February 2010, 09:37 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	Just rub it with a soft dry cloth, it will shine without being glossy.

23rd February 2010, 10:16 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Luc, Thank you for your reply and the advice on cleaning. This is probably as good a time as any to ask a question that I have been wondering about for quite a while now. If you have a piece that has either copper or brass on it and it has heavy green oxidation on it that is eating into the metal what is the best coarse of action to take to stop it and do you completely remove the oxidation or not? I have run into this problem a few times before (especially on items that were left for years in leather sheaths) and I always just cleaned the effected area completely free of the oxidation with penetrating oil and 0000 steel wool. Robert

25th February 2010, 08:02 PM	#7
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 473	There are many "schools", but personnaly I clean. Rust and oxidation are not patina for me, so I clean my knives. Especially if it is green oxidation, it is easy to clean to "new" copper and brass, but it also easy to make old with specific products.And you don't need a long time to have a soft matt, unpolished patina, which is better,for me , than a bad green.