![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
|
![]() |
#1 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
|
![]()
A NICE COLLECTION AND A GREAT STORY.
THE KRIS YOU HAVE CHOSEN HAS A NON TRADITIONAL HANDLE THAT IS NOT AS OLD AS THE BLADE. THE GRIP APPEARS TO BE BONE OR PERHAPS DEER ANTLER NOT IVORY. CLOSER PICTURES OF THE GRIP AND METAL WORK ON THE HANDLE WILL HELP FOR EXACT INFO. THE HANDLE AND BACA BACA STRAP ARE A MORE RECENT UP GRADE AND THE STATUS CAN BE DETERMINED BY THE MATERIALS USED. HIGH STATUS GOLD OR SWASSA, SILVER AND IVORY. LOWER STATUS AND MOSTLY FOR FLASHY LOOKS BONE, ANTLER, COPPER, BRASS. A CLOSE UP OF THE GANJA AREA OF THE BLADE WILL ALSO HELP THE EXPERTS MAKE ACCURATE OBSERVATIONS. PERHPAS SOME PICTURES OF THE OTHER KRIS WHICH APPEARS TO BE A GOOD OLD USED TRADITIONAL WEAPON WILL GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION TO HELP YOU MAKE THE BEST DECISION. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE PICTURES OF THE TWO HEAD AXS AND THE KRIS. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Hello Vandoo and thank you for the response. I just returned and will take some more pictures of the first kris shortly - sounds like I might have to hold off for the time being on deciding which to keep...
![]() In the meantime, I have included photos of the second kris in this post. The second kris has seen better days. However, as there was little active rust or corrosion when I took delivery of these and they were for the most part stabilized, I am of the opinion the deterioration of the blade had taken place some time ago, long before I took possession of it (though how long ago I do not know). The blade of this kris measures approx. 21 3/8 inches in length, with an OAL of 27 inches. Unlike the other example, the gangya (sp? ganja?), which measures approx. 4 inches across, is integrated into the blade. There no readily apparent distal taper that runs the length of the blade as there is with the first example. The blade does appear to taper in width, though not as much as the other; furthermore, the deterioration and blade loss makes such a measurement (at least to any degree of accuracy) unreliable IMO. The hilt treatment is obviously different and far less ornate. It is also somewhat lighter than the other kris. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'll post some pictures of the Odd Knife in the next post, after which I'll take some close-up photos of the first kris (and the axe heads). |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,308
|
![]()
Congratulations on this collection! All the pieces so far are WWII. You are right in that the head axes are Kalinga.
Vandoo accurately identified the first kris as bone or stag. The blade is older than WWII (perhaps turn of the century) and looks to be Maranao. The baka-baka clamp and one fitting is copper and the others brass - all later to the blade. The band on the scabbard (also made later) is aluminum and is missing the bottom band. The last kris is more recent - perhaps 1940s? It looks to be Sulu in origin. Hope this helps. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Hi Battara, and thank you for the information... I hope you will stick around for a few while I upload the close-up photos of the ganja (sp?) of both kris' shortly.
First, I have included a couple photos of the knife I am unable to identify. There are English / Latin alphabet characters on the obverse, in two lines - while I cannot make out the top line, the bottom line simply reads, "IS." The blade measures 10 1/4 inches in length, and is 2 1/4 inches wide at the hilt. The spine measures 5/16 of an inch at the hilt and evenly tapers to the tip. (Overcleaned) Brass ferule with seven facets, and a large horn grip. Steel (or iron?) pommel cap is also seven-sided; tang button is integral to the pommel cap and is also faceted with seven sides. The tang is peened over the button. Measures slightly under 17 inches overall. ![]() ![]() ![]() I'm about to upload the close-up photos of the kris'... One thing I have noticed in taking these most recent photos is how ridiculously overcleaned the furniture is - presumably by the previous owner, as his daughter hadn't bothered to remove the superficial surface rust that had begun to accumulate on most of them... Next post forthcoming! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Okay - here are some close-up photos of the ganjas of each kris. The first picture shows the ferule and grip of the first kris. You can see in this photo where the surface patina had been removed from the metal. Due to the verde patina, I presume the top-most ring is copper.
I am looking forward to hearing if these photos further validate the previous attribution and age estimation. In previewing my post before submitting it, I noticed Bill's input, and thank you for the same... I, too, had the distinct impression they had been overcleaned, though I believe said cleaning was performed b the late Col., not his daughter (for reasons mentioned above). In treating for the light surface rust present when I picked them up, I used the good 'ol standard of 3-in-1 and #0000, with just enough work to remove any active rust. ![]() So which one would you guys keep, and why? I'll next post a few pictures of one of the axes... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Thanks again, Chris |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Lastly, here a couple photos of one of the Kalinga axes. The axe head measures 15 7/16 inches in length; the spike measure about 4 1/2 inches. As mentioned, the thickness varies from a little more than 5 mm to +/- 3 mm. The axe, including the shaft, measure about 21 inches in height. The daughter thought the shafts might be made of monkey pod. The metallic inserts are a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous metals.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() If I have enough light, I might try to take a photo of the other pieces I acquired. Thanks again to the three of you - Vandoo, Bill, and Battara - for your input and information. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 327
|
![]()
I agree with Vandoo. It looks like both blades were treated with a powerful cleaner to remove rust. The first blade appears older but as Vandoo mentioned the fittings are new. It looks like someone used lost wax casting using a copper alloy for the stirrup.
The second blade is mid 20thC & a lot of those blades were made with recycled steel, this one had a lot of deep rust, leaving the major pits. The scabbard once had MOP or turtle shell, now missing. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,347
|
![]() Quote:
I believe your's has lost its M.O.P. decorations . This example I show is a plain one. pattern welded of many layers . Razor sharp (the sharpest of all my Moro krisses), a real user . |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Hi Rick,
Thank you for posting that example of yours for comparison - I see some definite similarities. I have one other Sulu kris that is heavy, huge, and MoP-hilted... the MoP panelling on the pommel on that example is held into place by pairs of small pins/nails. By contrast, this one (the one of mine you reference in your post) shows no indication of ever having been perforated (unlike the scabbard, which still has retaining pins). When I look closely at the thread-over-cloth covering the lower half of the grip, it looks as if the wrapping may be prematurely truncated, as it is tied off at the midway point of the grip... maybe at one time it covered the whole grip? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,308
|
![]()
Just a note: not all of the WWII+ scabbards had MOP. Many just were plain wood.
With the close up pictures of the head axes, I can see the brass inlay. They may be a little older than WWII. Don't know what to tell you about the knife. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,347
|
![]()
I think the Kalingas are the real prize here .
![]() Yes, I suspect the grip wrap was probably full length . |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,308
|
![]()
Oh sure without question a full wrap. I agree. I also agree that the Kalinga pieces like these are the best of the lot. Good Kalinga pieces are getting harder to come by. And then the provenance.........
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 608
|
![]()
Thank you both Battara & Rick... the deal I struck with my wife was if I keep one of the Kalingas, she won't use the 2nd one on me!
![]() I had found a similar example in the on-line catalog of the Macao Museum of Art's "Steel of Eastern Asia" exhibit dated to the 19th century: ![]() Close-up of similar inlay: ![]() The above example is catalog item #194 (click here for link), though the ration of height-to-length of the two I acquired appear to more closely resemble #192. But aside from the most cursory recognition of form, I know nothing regarding the evolution of design and material usage of the head axe... So is there a developing consensus on the approximate age of both the axes and the blade on the (presumably re-hilted) kris? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|