what a kris?

[Bill]

Originally Posted by David

Chregu's kris doesn't have the pointer profile of a stabbing keris. Look at the earlier "archiac" kris and their thinner, pointier blades. His looks like the larger slashing kris in proportion, just smaller in size, so i don't think this was designed to be a stabbing weapon.

Exactly. & why it's likely a training sword.
If you were to train someone half the size/strength, what would you use?
1/2 the sword. I talked to a soldier who was involved in the conflict in the south before & after the outside influences supplied firearms. There was no mistake he feared/respected the krisman the most. He claimed he never saw anyone survive wounds from a kris attack. To be that effective, there has to be many years of training.
A recent clan conflict just left a staggering amount of dead. They have been going on forever. Not to mention many different militas & bandits.
Training your boy, in that time period wouldn't be for recreation but necessity that be would have the skills to protect himself & family/clan.
As you say Chregu's kris would appear to be ineffective as a stabbing weapon or as slashing weapon. It would be a great little slasher, for little hands against a stuffed, hanging rice sack with instructions on effectively using the cutting edge to its greatest abilities.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill

As you say Chregu's kris would appear to be ineffective as a stabbing weapon or as slashing weapon. It would be a great little slasher, for little hands against a stuffed, hanging rice sack with instructions on effectively using the cutting edge to its greatest abilities.

Perhaps, but as pointed out previously, why both with all that inlay work for a practice sword?
And again, i will say that it is unlikely this is the original hilt. Even if "little hands" were doing the slashing this would still require some asang-asang to secure the blade properly. Sorry if i misunderstood you, but i thought you were arguing earlier that this blade was a stabbing weapon, not a slasher because of it's length.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps, but as pointed out previously, why both with all that inlay work for a practice sword?
And again, i will say that it is unlikely this is the original hilt. Even if "little hands" were doing the slashing this would still require some asang-asang to secure the blade properly. Sorry if i misunderstood you, but i thought you were arguing earlier that this blade was a stabbing weapon, not a slasher because of it's length.

I'm fairly sure that is a Tausog hilt from the Sulu area. Funny, but the kid that trained on that sword may very well still be around & one of the few that could tell us if it's original to the sword & why. If the sword is Tausog, those are fiercely independent people. While the US decreased involvement post WW2, there was a control vacuum created & the people in the south didn't want it filled by Manila. I can see nobility-class folks wanting to re-establish power & impress others. If indeed this is a training sword, it's a pretty impressive one.
I really don't think the asang-asang would be important for a kids sword, he'd probably knock it out of his hand before he'd loosen the blade. I've got several fighting kris where each stirrup is two pieces. One piece fitted around the blade & then a metal strip, looped & inserted next to the tang & into the hilt. Strictly show, no function.

[David]

Originally Posted by Bill

Funny, but the kid that trained on that sword may very well still be around & one of the few that could tell us if it's original to the sword & why.

Yes and i suppose that the dealer who married this hilt with this blade so that he could make it look complete and interesting for sale might still be around as well and he could tell us why he thought it was a good idea as well.

[chregu]

hello together
First time many thanks for the many information.
your bid to share in the sounds are German silver,not real silver.
the metal parts on the handle are copper silver plated.
Many thanks for your efforts.
here are some daylight pics
gruss chregu

[Bill]

Originally Posted by David

Yes and i suppose that the dealer who married this hilt with this blade so that he could make it look complete and interesting for sale might still be around as well and he could tell us why he thought it was a good idea as well.

You may be right, but he would have to have a hilt that was made for a smaller hand with a non traditional ferrule on the hilt.
Without asang-asang, a metal ferrule is needed where the tang inserts into the blade to support the hilt from cracking.
This one looks like the ferrule was originally for a more traditional kris hilt & re-used for the barung hilt.
I was looking through my stuff & found a barung with traditional ferrule but very similar style/carving. I bought it from Ramon Villegas, his description is circa 1960 Tausog.