Lantaka fake or real?

Maurice · 20th December 2009, 04:48 PM

David, there are living more Willems in the Netherlands.

Danny is not reffering to asomotif. But I guess the other Willem is lurking too once in a while.

Unfortunately I don't have pics. I was quick at a real old dusty antique gallery. I have seen the lantaka's lying behind a sideboard. I couldn't reach for the lantaka's to give it a closer look, but it looked like they had nice old patina.
I had very little time because I was there for other business

, of which I will post pictures when I have them.

Anyone know anything about books??

Maurice

David · 20th December 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

David, there are living more Willems in the Netherlands.

Well, of course there are Maurice, but given the context is it really surprising that i would assume Danny meant "our" Willem?

I would think that if you are truly interested in these lantakas that you will return to the shop and ask for a closer look. You should get some photos then and post them. I think it would be really hard to comment without seeing them.

asomotif · 20th December 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

i would assume Danny meant "our" Willem?

nope, Danny means another Willem.
Let's say "Big Willem"

I have no knowledge of lantaka's at all.
i already PM -ed Maurice.

Henk · 20th December 2009, 05:53 PM

In that case it would be nice if Maurice would post the pictures and the comments of "Big Willem" as well.
After all we all are very curious

Maurice · 21st December 2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

In that case it would be nice if Maurice would post the pictures and the comments of "Big Willem" as well.
After all we all are very curious

Henk, I am curious too. Because when it is real old and not of the fake ones, I would like to have one of them in my collection. I am not sure if I am able to take pictures there. I will go after the holidays and see what I can do to provide photo's.
I will send the other Willem an email if he knows books of lantaka's. I will let you know.

M ELEY · 21st December 2009, 10:42 AM

Wow...definitely a loaded question considering there are true old ones, ones that were used only as a form of currency all the way up into the 20th century, ones that were used as wedding doweries/gifts (to my understanding, these cheaper made pieces are like symbolic pieces, like a Victorian copy of earlier piece) and, of course, modern fakes. I know very little how to spot the fakes, but it is my understanding that the older ones were typically plainer than the more modern and currency models (lacking the dolphin and dragon decorations, etc). Likewise, the ones used as true firing pieces had their trunnions set low on the pieces so thay could be used as true swivel-type rail guns (meaning, I have seen some of the modern faux-verdigris guns with trunnions directly extending from their sides, thus, not true swivels as the lantankas were intended to be). Also adding to the confusion is that the larger of the pieces were true weapons whereas the smaller ones were just signallers. What length constituting which was a fighter and which wasn't hasn't been made clear to me in any of my research. Sorry if this causes more confusion than answers-

Look for true signs of wear and aging, including inside the barrel. Perhaps look up how the new ones are given fake green patina and how to spot it.

Maurice · 21st December 2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Wow...definitely a loaded question considering there are true old ones, ones that were used only as a form of currency all the way up into the 20th century, ones that were used as wedding doweries/gifts (to my understanding, these cheaper made pieces are like symbolic pieces, like a Victorian copy of earlier piece) and, of course, modern fakes. I know very little how to spot the fakes, but it is my understanding that the older ones were typically plainer than the more modern and currency models (lacking the dolphin and dragon decorations, etc). Likewise, the ones used as true firing pieces had their trunnions set low on the pieces so thay could be used as true swivel-type rail guns (meaning, I have seen some of the modern faux-verdigris guns with trunnions directly extending from their sides, thus, not true swivels as the lantankas were intended to be). Also adding to the confusion is that the larger of the pieces were true weapons whereas the smaller ones were just signallers. What length constituting which was a fighter and which wasn't hasn't been made clear to me in any of my research. Sorry if this causes more confusion than answers-

Look for true signs of wear and aging, including inside the barrel. Perhaps look up how the new ones are given fake green patina and how to spot it.

Thank you very much for your extensive valuable information.
Can you tell something about the source of your research?
Maybe I have more questions now after reading your story, but the more questions to nail down, the more knowledge after finding the answers!

The wear and aging of wooden, bone and ivory swordhandles I can recognize.
But to recognize old bronze patina is a limitation I still have, want and need to learn. Can anyone post examples of good bronze patina, and fake bronze patina?

Rg,
Maurice

David · 21st December 2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

I am not sure if I am able to take pictures there. I will go after the holidays and see what I can do to provide photo's.

If you tell the shop owner that you are truly interested in them, but want to sent photos to someone more knowledgeable and he refuses to let you i would take that as a clear sign that they might be fakes and tell the guy so.

Maurice · 21st December 2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

If you tell the shop owner that you are truly interested in them, but want to sent photos to someone more knowledgeable and he refuses to let you i would take that as a clear sign that they might be fakes and tell the guy so.

David you are right about that. But that is not what I meant.
What I meant (but didn't write) is that it is a real dark antiquestorage. Almost no light is coming through the little windows, so it would be hard to show the patina.
I will contact him as soon as the holidays are over to make an appointment to shoot some pictures, because he is closed already for this year...

20th December 2009, 04:48 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,462	David, there are living more Willems in the Netherlands. Danny is not reffering to asomotif. But I guess the other Willem is lurking too once in a while. Unfortunately I don't have pics. I was quick at a real old dusty antique gallery. I have seen the lantaka's lying behind a sideboard. I couldn't reach for the lantaka's to give it a closer look, but it looked like they had nice old patina. I had very little time because I was there for other business , of which I will post pictures when I have them. Anyone know anything about books?? Maurice

20th December 2009, 05:53 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	In that case it would be nice if Maurice would post the pictures and the comments of "Big Willem" as well. After all we all are very curious

21st December 2009, 10:42 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,207	Wow...definitely a loaded question considering there are true old ones, ones that were used only as a form of currency all the way up into the 20th century, ones that were used as wedding doweries/gifts (to my understanding, these cheaper made pieces are like symbolic pieces, like a Victorian copy of earlier piece) and, of course, modern fakes. I know very little how to spot the fakes, but it is my understanding that the older ones were typically plainer than the more modern and currency models (lacking the dolphin and dragon decorations, etc). Likewise, the ones used as true firing pieces had their trunnions set low on the pieces so thay could be used as true swivel-type rail guns (meaning, I have seen some of the modern faux-verdigris guns with trunnions directly extending from their sides, thus, not true swivels as the lantankas were intended to be). Also adding to the confusion is that the larger of the pieces were true weapons whereas the smaller ones were just signallers. What length constituting which was a fighter and which wasn't hasn't been made clear to me in any of my research. Sorry if this causes more confusion than answers- Look for true signs of wear and aging, including inside the barrel. Perhaps look up how the new ones are given fake green patina and how to spot it.